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Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

tomscott.com

431–440 of 440 posts

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#431
post #325
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German here. We do have a public healthcare system. That we can opt out of and go private. The trade-off is it being increasingly hard to get back into the public one, especially as people get older and thus more "expensive". Insurances (including fire service or roadside assistance) has to be payed. You cannot just opt back into it once you need it. If parent is right and they had chances to opt into fire service bu…

This is interesting, when you say "increasingly hard to get back into", what are you referring to? What is the rising cost of going back to being on the public system?

Being older than 55 is the big one. Those making very little money can join a family insurance of their significant other. Or find a loophole, like getting into the public system of another country, then moving back.

For those younger, it seems to be mostly about not earning a lot. Here the limits are even smaller for those already private in 2002.

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The motivations of people who joined Jan 6 are very simple: they thought they had been disenfranchised because of unprecedented anomalies during vote counting on election day, which their opposition made no effort to explain.

Literally dozens of articles were written about a red mirage and how the mail in vote which would be counted later, would skew towards the democrats.

In one case a collection of votes was delivered that contained over 400k votes for Biden and zero votes for Trump or the independent candidates. That is incredibly improbable verging on statistically impossible even if 99% of those mail-in voters supported Biden.

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally dozens of articles were written about a red mirage and how the mail in vote which would be counted later, would skew towards the democrats.

In one case a collection of votes was delivered that contained over 400k votes for Biden and zero votes for Trump or the independent candidates. That is incredibly improbable verging on statistically impossible even if 99% of those mail-in voters supported Biden.

Cite from a reputable source on this? I know there were stories of related things happening, but to my knowledge they were all bullshit.

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#434
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story still makes the rounds, and the result is still the same. The family chose to live in unincorporated land. They turned down fire protection when the county offered it to them. They turned down fire protection when their insurer offered it to them. The fire department did what was required to save lives. Insurance can take care of the rest...oh, that's right.

Hmmmm. I mean, yes, but doctors will still save your life even if you declined to buy any insurance all life long or pay taxes or whatever. I'm not sure I want the same "protect at all costs" attitude extended to buildings, but fire can definitely spread and even if they don't care about your property they might care about other places.

[deleted]

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#435
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still the same problem though. If nobody pays the town is still going to be out money even if it's possible to collect $3500. And the reason they don't put out the blaze and then just charge if someone doesn't have insurance is because they won't be able to collect. How do you deal with freeloaders in society?

The town was paying for a fire department anyway. The additional fee ways for people outside the town. Meanwhile, governments have excellent was of collecting on low-four figure debts secured by real estate. And, as I pointed out, the appropriate punishment for freeloading is paying a heavy fine when you opt to use it.

The problem is that the municipality is a subordinate gov't within the county. They have no leverage over people outside the municipality, and basically had to have a court fight for every uncollected fee/fine, which rapidly ate all the money that could be collected... if the person living almost tax free on unincorporated land in a mobile home had the money to be collected.

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#436
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want a system where a very elderly person, with say millions in assets, gets all their nursing home care for free in their final years, just so they can leave a bigger inheritance to their kids? I don't. Going thru this now with my own elderly parents - I am perfectly OK with medicare ending up owning the equity left in their house, and meager other assets - to recoup money spent on their care - people s…

I didn't say millions in assets -- in fact, the way the system works is that those are the only people who come out with any of value to pass down to their heirs! The system is working for those people as intended; they benefit from lower costs (since everyone has to pay market price) and they are not penniless from it. The rest are drained of everything they spent their life building, and denied the opportunity to s…

>>The rest are drained of everything they spent their life building, and denied the opportunity to share that with their loved ones.

But why shouldn't they be drained of their life savings if they move into a nursing home and need to pay for care? If they have the money - any money - that is only going to be left to their heirs, why shouldn't it be used to pay for their own care?

It is an honest question - why should I inherit money from my parents estate, and the taxpayers pickup the bill for their care? If they died today, and medicare didn't claw back from their estate, there would maybe be 200K that needs to be split 5 ways - why should my siblings and I get this 'windfall' and expect the taxpayers to fund their nursing home?

I honestly don't understand why this isn't fair.

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#437
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stop tilting at windmills, the question is whether or not the government can force you to pay for a __PRIVATE__ service just for __EXISTING__ within the borders of the US. There is __NO PRECEDENT__ for this. The closest you can get are things like car insurance where you're required to carry insurance in order to drive on US roads. You can choose not to drive, you cannot choose to "not exist". That puts this into an…

I'm entirely willing to accept that it's a bad law (It is, for multiple reasons - unfortunately, the situation without it is even worse ), I'm simply drawing the line at claims that it's an illegal law (It's not, it's been pretty thoroughly litigated).

I said unconstitutional, not illegal.

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#438
post #431
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting, when you say "increasingly hard to get back into", what are you referring to? What is the rising cost of going back to being on the public system?

Being older than 55 is the big one. Those making very little money can join a family insurance of their significant other. Or find a loophole, like getting into the public system of another country, then moving back. For those younger, it seems to be mostly about not earning a lot. Here the limits are even smaller for those already private in 2002.

Ah ok, so premiums to rejoin the public service are higher as you're over 55? Vs say continuing to pay?

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#439
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can vote for changes and hold your elected officials accountable. That's the strength of government solutions. No, it's the weakness of government solutions. If I want to help people, I can start a private charity and go help people. If I want to government to help people, I have to get a majority of the country to vote for politicians that will make that happen--assuming there even are any. > You and those aro…

> If you believe people should be helped, you can go help them. I could, but how is that better? If there's a natural disaster on the other side of the country and I can see that people need help should I immediately pack up my car with water bottles, food, and blankets and drive for three or four days to "go help them?" I have responsibilities here too. I have a job and a family who need me here. Should I just leave…

> It's stupidly inefficient for everyone to respond to people in need by going to help them.

By "go help them" I did not mean literally drop what you're doing at any moment. I meant, set up private means to help people, funded by volutary contributions. That would entail some people actually physically going to help, but not everyone involved. A private institution could take all of the measures you describe as being more efficient. Indeed, historically private institutions have done so. The monopolization of "helping people" by governments, on the theory (mistaken--see below) that governments can do it more efficiently, is a fairly recent development.

> "The government" isn't forcing anyone to help people.

Yes, it is. No one has the option of not paying their taxes because they don't agree with what the government is doing with the money. Try that and you will go to jail. That's force. All government laws and policies are backed up by force and the threat of force.

> It's your neighbors, my neighbors, and everyone around and between us choosing to help others.

No, it isn't. What that would look like is not passing laws. What it would look like is you, your neighbors, and everyone else who agreed with you forming a private institution to help others, funded by voluntary contributions.

> You might not agree with it, but that's just life in a democracy.

In other words, you agree that democracy forces some people to pay for things they do not support. Thank you. But you realize, of course, that you are contradicting your earlier statement that the government isn't forcing anyone to help people.

> it sounds like you haven't really thought through your "Everyone go help whoever they think needs it directly" strategy at all.

On the contrary, you are the one who hasn't thought through your position, because, aside from contradicting yourself (see above), you are helping yourself to the extremely implausible (I could say "demonstrably false", but I'll go easy on you for now) claims that (1) democratic processes as they actually exist in our country and others actually do a good job of giving all viewpoints a fair hearing and deciding questions on the merits and not on irrelevant grounds of political expediency or cronyism or... (I could go on and on), and (2) that the government programs that result from these democratic processes actually do what they are ostensibly created to do, and (3) that they do it more efficiently (i.e., with more actual good done per dollar contributed by the people) that private charitable institutions would.

It's precisely because I have thought through these things, and have seen, through both first-hand experience and through looking at the overall performance of government programs in general, that all three of the above claims are false, that I have come to the views I have been expressing.

Re: Did insurance fire brigades let uninsured buildings burn?

#440
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a research paper in college on the Children's Crusade, and the question I posed to be answered was "how many children participated in it?" It turns out that it was a real phenomenon, and many children did leave home, but being children, practically none of them made it to the Holy Land. The journey for many was much, much shorter. And likewise, for many it was merely a spiritual crusade and they went nowhere…

Sounds like a fascinating paper - would like to read that, or at least more of the sources.

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