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A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

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Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#101

Post by botker »

jarek wrote: post #98
botker wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic that my anti-dogmatic stance ( None of us has the right to dictate the behavior of strangers ) came across as being dogmatic ( Thou shalt not dictate the behavior of strangers ). Of course you're right that this is how the world works, from a Collectivist perspective. The Individualist perspective, which I tend towards, asserts that individual happiness is far more important than any attempt to "optimise…

Serious question: do you consider it practically possible to live in an Individualist way in a modern city?

Yeah, I do, although I think most people would answer "No". Culturally, in the US at least, there's a distinct tendency toward Individualism in rural areas and Collectivism in urban areas. But the distinction is cultural, not inherent.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#102

Post by botker »

rayiner wrote: post #89
botker wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All government regulation is bad because none of us has the moral right to dictate the behavior of strangers. The aggregate gain in a quieter society that you describe is not an aggregate gain in happiness. It's a society in which we're silenced. Advertising is a form of speech, and we should all support free speech in all forms, lest we find ourselves silenced. Hacker News would be free of visual clutter if we all s…

You're a nutter.

What are you, an ex-girlfriend? This is Hacker News; let's maintain a higher level of conversation than that.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#103

Post by msbarnett »

ars wrote: post #59
msbarnett wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinkos doesn't need a sign above their store telling me it's a copy shop, nor does Tim Hortons need a billboard in the air above their local franchise telling me they sell coffee and donuts; they've successfully gotten that information to me in other mediums that are less visually intrusive upon my neighbourhood. But I frequent the Campus copy shop, not Kinkos, and their name "Campus Copy Shop" seems relatively unamb…

> they've successfully gotten that information to me in other mediums How nice for you - and even nicer for those places with large advertising budgets. But that is not the case for everyone. I don't need a huge billboard above a shop. But some ads that show what they do are quite helpful. > "Campus Copy Shop" So you suggest that all shops name themself as basically what they do? And what about a grocery store that h…

> How nice for you - and even nicer for those places with large advertising budgets. But that is not the case for everyone. I don't need a huge billboard above a shop. But some ads that show what they do are quite helpful.

Quite helpful, for you. Useless, for me.

Neither of us should mistake our preferences for some kind of universal fact.

The public commons are a space that needs to be governed by the balancing of competing interests. Sao Paulo has evidently chosen to balance those interests in a way I would prefer given my preferences and needs, but you would not given yours.

The only thing that can be really said here is that you probably shouldn't move to Sao Paulo.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#105

Post by ars »

msbarnett wrote: post #103
ars wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they've successfully gotten that information to me in other mediums How nice for you - and even nicer for those places with large advertising budgets. But that is not the case for everyone. I don't need a huge billboard above a shop. But some ads that show what they do are quite helpful. > "Campus Copy Shop" So you suggest that all shops name themself as basically what they do? And what about a grocery store that h…

> How nice for you - and even nicer for those places with large advertising budgets. But that is not the case for everyone. I don't need a huge billboard above a shop. But some ads that show what they do are quite helpful. Quite helpful, for you. Useless, for me. Neither of us should mistake our preferences for some kind of universal fact. The public commons are a space that needs to be governed by the balancing of c…

Did you really say "public commons"?? You understand we are talking about the window of a shop right? That's as far from the commons as you can get.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#107

Post by schiffern »

OstiaAntica wrote: post #9

Vermont has similar rules restricting signage on state roadways, and it adds to the state's charm.

I wonder how many traffic accidents the law prevents. The copy on roadside billboards is about as long as a text message, but while texting and driving is outlawed in 35 states, only 4 states have outlawed roadside billboards (Vermont, Maine, Hawaii, and Alaska).

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#108

Post by perfunctory »

jxcole wrote: post #3

I would be interested to see before and after shots. Was their advertising problem really so bad or was just about the same as any other city? Edit: Found one: http://banbillboardblight.org/?page_id=4251

> so bad or was just about the same as any other city

To me, it's quite bad in any other city.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#110

Post by forensic »

jeffem wrote: post #64

I wonder what the comments here would look like if the ban would have been on a different advertising medium, say, online advertising. I'd be willing to bet the great majority here would oppose it, and I'd be willing to bet that people would be exploring all of the negative and potential unintended consequences. Have you considered the immediate losses advertisers will incur from removing/destroying their advertising…

You're spreading FUD. The public doesn't need focus groups and rigorous experimental studies to know that it values a clean city free of visual pollution. it just needs to vote for it.

Where are the studies showing that visual clutter benefits everyone? Oh ya that's right nobody asked for studies because "benefitting everyone" is low priority next to silencing the voice of the public to ensure no obstacles to the corporations that rape our world.

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