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Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

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141–150 of 205 posts

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#141
post #63

by reducing credit, copilot reduces incentive to create and publish free code. biting the hand that feeds it. exact same problem exists with GPT3 and others. big tech slashing and burning, ruthlessly exploiting the least empowered people in the tech economy. neat hack.

How does copilot reduce the incentive to publish free code?

Depends how you define free.

If an AI being inspired by GPL code that happened to be in its training data because someone other than the creator stuck it in a repo on GitHub is just fine, and if some code produced as a result is practically identical that is fine too, and the resulting code is not considered GPL any more, then the GPL and licences like it are worthless.

The only two designations that mean anything at that point are public domain and commercial. “free” as in “Free” rather than public domain means the same as public domain.

So there is no point releasing free (other than public domain) code, discouraging the act. If I want to control how my code is used at all protected commercial release becomes the only option.

This of course suits the commercial interest behind copilot just fine and dandy…

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But, if commercial code ended up in the training set the same should apply because in terms of giving the right to use code licences like the GPL and commercial licences are no different: the licence gives the right to use the code. If passing it through an AI gives that right, bypassing the licence, for one case than it should for the other too. I wonder if MS would be happy for copilot's own code to be in the training set and for me to produce and sell something based on the output of an AI trained with their code?!

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I think the AI systems like copilot should be considered the same as us wet-ware naturally formed intelligence systems in that respect: if it produces something based on code under a particular licence then that something should be subject to the terms of the licence. Ignorance of the licence is no excuse. If the AI can not be made aware of the correct licence and attribution for the code, so it can include that with its suggestions based on it, then that code should not be in the training set.

For decades MS complained about open source code potentially creating this very situation, just with only non-artificial intelligences in the mix, now they are hoping no one can call them on that because it is convenient for them to ignore the issue.

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#142
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but terms of service don't give you a blanket license to re-purpose someone else's copyrighted work at your pleasure. By that same token any hosting provider could make a small change to their terms of service and suddenly all of the data of all of the customers would be theirs. Copyright does not work that way, you need to actively sign away your rights.

> Sorry but terms of service don't give you a blanket license to re-purpose someone else's copyrighted work at your pleasure. That’s correct. It’s also not what happened here. I don’t violate your copyright when I scrape your web page. I don’t violate your copyright when I train a model on a web page that I scraped. I violate your copyright only if I use that tool to produce code that violates your copyright. This is…

If the training data discussion ends on that note than there is exist a large upside. Youtube and other video hosting services has a massive collection of the worlds images, music and sound. Anyone who who want to build an AI will have access to practically unlimited amount of training data, meaning the barrier to entry will be quite low.

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#143
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen an ML researcher claim that understanding the effect of specific training inputs on outputs is straightforward given the size of these LLMs. Most view it as a very difficult if not impossible problem.

And yet it's a major part of the overall concept of being responsible with our use of AIs. Throwing our hands up in the air and prematurely declaring defeat is not an option long term. It's a non-starter for no other reason than potential copyright infringement means the government becomes involved, and they will stomp on the AI mouse with the force of an elephant - the opinions of amateurs and the anti-copyright mov…

Those companies are not solving the problem you are describing

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#144

To me AI code generators are the equivalent of crypto tumblers or mixers for digital coins. You can pretend all you want that the output is 'clean' but we all know it came from somewhere else and wasn't actually generated by the software, just endless little snippets that other people made.

ChatGPT output is very clean and precise especially when variables provided in detail. I doubt you can trace it back if you make the prompt very elaborate.

Why can't you trace it back? Remove all the input, fill the model with noise. Prompt all you want it will produce just noise. Train the model on your chosen input text. Suddenly it starts to provide 'clean and precise text'. Absent an argument that we're looking at AGI I see no other possible conclusion than that this is a mechanical transformation of two inputs (yours + the training data) into some output. What happens inside the box is irrelevant, that's just implementation details of the mechanism. If you build your mechanism in such a way that you can't trace it yourself that doesn't mean that you get to claim the output as an original work.

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#145
post #54
post #16

“…modify[ing] its AI model so that it traces attribution and gives credit to the original authors of the code, adding the associated copyright notices and license terms in the process…Biderman says is technologically feasible.” Is it really feasible? What does “traces attribution” even mean here? It’s not emitting “code”, it’s emitting individual tokens that each were found throughout the input corpus. The “code” is…

Why wouldn’t it be feasible? (Maybe this depends on what you mean by ‘feasible’.) There’s no technical reason you can’t back-track the weights and make a list of which tokens from which training data were sampled. The list might be long, it could be impractical, but that has little bearing on whether it’s technically possible, right? The problem here happens when the same source is sampled for many tokens in a row be…

The judge/law will say it comes down to intent.

Here's my take from an audio DSP viewpoint.

A composer listens to 10,000 hours of music. One day she writes an original piece based on the annealed parameters (temporal, spectral, intensity, pitch, sequence...) of a million artists. However it sounds like another specific artist who sues.

It is not a cover, a remix, homage, or even forged in the genre... it's just accidentally a bit too like it. (compare: Banana Splits vs. Bob Marley - and - Huey Lewis vs. Ray Parker Jr. - which completely misses the real impact of "Pop Muzik" by M)

The question is, was she exposed to influencing materials incorporated without intent or was it plagiarism (intent to reproduce a derivative etc) ?

By contrast I can take a piece of music, break it down by analysis into melodies, chords, timings, and use FFT to extract the precise spectrums of instruments, feed those to a resynthesis engine that finds new synthesiser parameters to create an exact sound-alike and then deliberately recreate a piece "In the near style of artist X". With a little musical processing I can change the key, inversions, re-template the rhythm to a new swing... always pushing the derived piece into new territory until eventually it's barely recognisable.

Nonetheless, in the second case I have clearly intended to steal someone's idea and "make it my own" by automatable transformation.

In the former case it seems to be a "genuine labour". (whatever that means in 2023)

The genuine artist intends to make something through intellectual labour.

Maybe that's the real question. I mean, about "labour". If the cost of the labour tends to zero, does it really matter?

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. You don't mind if I borrow your car do you? And your house? Let's not quibble about the particulars of me ever giving them back.

indeed, the first step (IMO) towards revising the notion is to recognize that physical (material, tangible) assets inherently work differently than digital assets. As I understand so far the main reason to seek a revision of the concept of ownership is exactly due to the existence (enabled by internet technology) of digital assets. copy-pasting is HOW computers work. copy-pasting does not do well in society ruled by…

I'm not exactly an IP hawk, from from it.

I agree with you that digital "asset" ownership is new, unexplored territory for humans.

We've never been able to separate the content from the distribution medium before now, and we're struggling to recreate a model we're familiar with (physical media) by imposing absurdities like DRM.

NFTs are also an absurd way of trying to solve the same problem.

The issue we wrestle with is mistaking "ownership" with a access.

I can own a physical book, but I do not own the content of the book, I've paid for access to that content and the book is the medium.

Digital assets are the same, I don't own them, they are a form of access to content that someone else owns, and has granted me an either implicit or explicit license to use.

I think this is the concept of ownership that needs to be revised.

Rather than a mp3 being treated, and thought of, like a book - it should be thought of more as a movie ticket. Something that grants me access to content within the limits defined by the content owner.

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#147
post #16

“…modify[ing] its AI model so that it traces attribution and gives credit to the original authors of the code, adding the associated copyright notices and license terms in the process…Biderman says is technologically feasible.” Is it really feasible? What does “traces attribution” even mean here? It’s not emitting “code”, it’s emitting individual tokens that each were found throughout the input corpus. The “code” is…

So there a few ways this can actually be done with different levels of accuracy/precision. But it is going to be complicated no matter what.

The easy thing to do is to compare outputs to inputs. This isn't technically hard (i.e. cosine similarity) but it is computationally difficult (i.e. cosine similarity of output to entire input). This would give us some weightings that show similarity. But this doesn't really tell us attribution, rather more a correlation. These are statistical models so there's reason to believe that this is okay.

Then there's inversion. This is processing data backwards through the model. This has different complexities compared to what type of model you're working with. GANs aren't great, diffusions are okay, normalizing flows are trivial (but good luck generating good images from NFs). If we can invert the model it is much easier to investigate and probe for contribution by looking at the distance of the latent generative variable to the location of the latent trained data. Basically you're looking at how different information is contributing to the overall output. This can also be done at every level in the network. Obviously this gets both technically challenging as well as computationally.

Another method would be using dataset reconstruction (this is outside my wheelhouse fwiw). This is where you try to recover the dataset from the final trained network. This too is complicated but there's plenty of papers showing progress in this space (lots of interest from privacy groups).

(TLDR-ish) There's other methods too. But basically what is being said is that there are ways to denote what and how much the training data contributed to the output of the model wherein we can then measure how similar the output is to the inputs (i.e. copying).

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#148
It seems to me there are some really fundamental questions about copyright and use posed here that have been submerged in the background of the internet rush to digitize all forms of content and expression. Even though these generative tools may simplify the path to verbatim code (or image, or text) copying without attribution, and complicate determining what, if any, attributions are required, they didn't invent it. A browser coupled with a search engine facilitates such copying all the time. Like the generative models, the search engine is a tool that has read, for its own purposes, vast swaths of content, remembered key details about it, and serves a means to render the content up to a user. It's not the copying per se that causes trouble - creators make their material on the internet with the expectation and hope that it will be copied, by all those tools, into search engines and ultimately onto screens, so I can see it. It's that the chain of attribution is lost (or with OS code, the license imprint, which is really just another form of attribution), and with the attribution, any hope that the creator will benefit from the copying.

But actually carrying attribution forward is going to be hard. Things that come out of a generative model that are substantially identical to a particular input do so for one of two reasons: one particular training input to the model is overwhelmingly the "best" source of response to the prompt, or a training input has been repeated over and over again in the training set so as to become the consensus response to one or more prompts. The first might reasonably feasible to track down, although it's bound to be computationally expensive. The second ... really tough, since it forces the model to "know" which of those many training sources is the one that should attributed. The widely circulated example of an image generation model reproducing Steve McMurray's famous photo of Sharbat Gula, a green-eyed Afghani girl that appeared on National Geographics cover in 1985 shows the problem. Do a Google search for "green-eyed Afghan girl" and you'll find hundreds of copies of varying resolution and definition, and hundreds more derivative versions, of McMurray's photo. A model spitting out yet another derived, but nearly identical version is likely drawing from hundreds of those images itself, not some original root, copyrighted golden copy. Which should it attribute?

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#149
post #2

ownership is a concept in dire need of revision

Agreed. You don't mind if I borrow your car do you? And your house? Let's not quibble about the particulars of me ever giving them back.

> You don't mind if I borrow your car do you?

ZipCar, et. al.

> And your house?

AirBnB

> Let's not quibble about the particulars of me ever giving them back.

Symmetry.

Re: Ownership of AI-Generated Code Hotly Disputed

#150
post #136
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn’t it be feasible? (Maybe this depends on what you mean by ‘feasible’.) There’s no technical reason you can’t back-track the weights and make a list of which tokens from which training data were sampled. The list might be long, it could be impractical, but that has little bearing on whether it’s technically possible, right? The problem here happens when the same source is sampled for many tokens in a row be…

The failure mode I see here, which seems quite likely, is that attribution would almost always list tens of thousands of source files, or more. They doesn’t seem particularly useful or meaningful.

Yeah, correct, I would expect the same thing to happen if you list all attributions. That’s why I mentioned a criteria for filtering by number of tokens in a row for a given attribution, and one possible method for doing the filtering via largest common subsets.

While the very long list would be impractical (but not infeasible), sorting and filtering the list by how much each source contributes would make it easier to manage. Pruning all the entries that are below a contribution threshold would almost certainly shrink it to a very small fraction of the total number of attributions. We don’t need to list all the attributions that contribute to only one token, all we need to know is which attributions ended up with 5 or 50 or 500 tokens in a row, right? Likely not many.

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