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Why T-shaped people? (2018)

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Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#61

Post by pelasaco »

kypro wrote: post #25

I was working a corporate job a few years back and I guess our boss heard about the benefits of "T-shaped" people / teams. Anyway to improve productivity it was decided the whole dev team would participate in a half day training course about "T-shaped" people. It was your typical corporate training nonsense, a hour of watching videos, weird team activities including making animal noises with blindfolds on, playing wi…

that's what full stack developers are all about. You should do everything. From planning to deployment. From backend to web design. Tune your cluster and fix your CSS.

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#62

Post by krisoft »

kypro wrote: post #25

I was working a corporate job a few years back and I guess our boss heard about the benefits of "T-shaped" people / teams. Anyway to improve productivity it was decided the whole dev team would participate in a half day training course about "T-shaped" people. It was your typical corporate training nonsense, a hour of watching videos, weird team activities including making animal noises with blindfolds on, playing wi…

> We had backend devs doing frontend development with jQuery when we were using Vue.

I believe you, but I have so many questions. Where the devs prevented from chatting with each other before starting to hammer on the keyboard? Were the backend devs not curious when they had to import a new dependency (jquery in this case)? Who did the code review?

Having a backend dev do frontend is not different from a junior employee starting at the company. People have to support them, with advice, tips and reviews. Did the company failed at regular onboarding this bad too?

Honestly the whole thing sounds like malicious compliance. People didn't want to do a thing and they made sure it will be done badly.

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#63

Post by bastian »

The definition of a t-shaped person here is wrong. I always understood it as: An individual who has empathy and ability to collaborate across disciplines coupled with deep knowledge in a specific area. Based on Tom Kelly (IDEO), probably 2005

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#64

Post by cokeandpepsi »

_dain_ wrote: post #54
samwillis wrote: post #3

My first boss talked about "F shaped" people and encouraged me to try and develop in that way. I later discovered he was paraphrasing and extending this "T shaped" idea. This was originally described by Tim Brown of IDEO [0] fame, but as the OP explains has been extended and adapted since. I think it's a really good thing to consider earlier in your carrier, helping to enable you to be a better, rounder and more valu…

Other shapes have also been proposed: X-shaped for leadership I-shaped for individual depth-skill without communication skills tree-shaped for a person with depth in many areas or branches of a field Multiple Mountains shaped (coined by Forrest Z. Shooster) for individuals with depth in overlapping several fields rather than a shallow depth in many or a singular depth in one field who specialize in the overlap betwee…

Well, I guess I could write a tool to translate resumes into this nonsense

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#65

Post by Communitivity »

The value of T shaped people is overhyped. We know the benefits of in depth study in an area as well as entry-level study in many areas: eased collaboration, cross-disciplinary thinking, etc. My problem with T-shaped people is not the concept, but that the concept doesn't go far enough. I have at various times used the phrase 'Pitchfork People' and 'M-Shaped people' to represent what I think our goals should be. M-shaped people have an entry level understanding across a broad area of subjects, preferably cross-discipline, and a deep dive specialist-level understanding of two and possibly three areas.

Heinlein said it best, "Specialization is for insects"

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#66

Post by FlyingSnake »

kypro wrote: post #25

I was working a corporate job a few years back and I guess our boss heard about the benefits of "T-shaped" people / teams. Anyway to improve productivity it was decided the whole dev team would participate in a half day training course about "T-shaped" people. It was your typical corporate training nonsense, a hour of watching videos, weird team activities including making animal noises with blindfolds on, playing wi…

This comment is a classic example of misreading the philosophy behind T-Shape people. T-Shape or 'paint drip' people is a term used for generalists who have acquired a diverse skillset during their career and how these generalists have an upper hand over a specialist in certain domains. The book Range by David Epstein also goes deep into this philosophy.

A single anecdote of a misguided manager ruining it for their team does not invalidate the idea of T-Shaped people.

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#67

Post by [deleted] »

pelasaco wrote: post #61
kypro wrote: post #25

I was working a corporate job a few years back and I guess our boss heard about the benefits of "T-shaped" people / teams. Anyway to improve productivity it was decided the whole dev team would participate in a half day training course about "T-shaped" people. It was your typical corporate training nonsense, a hour of watching videos, weird team activities including making animal noises with blindfolds on, playing wi…

that's what full stack developers are all about. You should do everything. From planning to deployment. From backend to web design. Tune your cluster and fix your CSS.

[deleted]

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#68

Post by helen___keller »

If it takes X years experience to gain I-shaped expertise and Y years experience to gain generalist expertise, it should follow that it takes roughly X + Y years to gain T shaped expertise

It might not be exactly linear, but you should consider that by committing to a team of T shaped engineers you’re also committing to a team of very highly qualified and very expensive engineers.

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#69

Post by analog31 »

rtontic wrote: post #10

Maybe I didn't understand the article correctly, but are there any people, especially on HN, that identify as specialists? By that I mean, they only know one skill, and that's it, they don't consider themselves T shaped.

I think yes. I have colleagues that are in certain fields because those things really are their passion, and they want to get as good as possible at them. For instance a mechanical or electrical engineer who really doesn't care what the GUI for using the product is going to look like.

Sometimes it's a true passion for a field, other times it's because there would be so much friction switching tools or learning the internal standards and tools of a business. For instance programming means not only coding, but also familiarity with the tools, libraries, and coding standards of a coding shop, which take time to learn.

Sometimes it's just due to human nature, that larger organizations become silo'd, and practicing two skills means navigating the politics of two silo's, twice the number of meetings, etc. Also, if you belong to silo A, and help out with B, then the manager of A gets annoyed with you. So in a sense specialization is a way to find a comfort zone in a typical human organization, even in what are considered to be good workplaces.

Re: Why T-shaped people? (2018)

#70

Post by oersted »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #66
kypro wrote: post #25

I was working a corporate job a few years back and I guess our boss heard about the benefits of "T-shaped" people / teams. Anyway to improve productivity it was decided the whole dev team would participate in a half day training course about "T-shaped" people. It was your typical corporate training nonsense, a hour of watching videos, weird team activities including making animal noises with blindfolds on, playing wi…

This comment is a classic example of misreading the philosophy behind T-Shape people. T-Shape or 'paint drip' people is a term used for generalists who have acquired a diverse skillset during their career and how these generalists have an upper hand over a specialist in certain domains. The book Range by David Epstein also goes deep into this philosophy. A single anecdote of a misguided manager ruining it for their t…

But T-Shaped people are specialists aren't they? That's the | part of the T. Specialists with enough curiosity and flexibility not to be afraid to go beyond their expertise and get a surface understanding of many other things that might indirectly enrich their core competency.

At least that's how I understand it.

Unlike generalists, they have gone through the tough process of going very deep into something. They understand that there's a lot of detail under the surface of any domain and they know how to get there when needed, whereas a generalists would disregard or be ignorant of any complexity.

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