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What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

bbc.com

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#501

Post by unity1001 »

JW_00000 wrote: post #222
pcurve wrote: post #53

Summary: There are many studies done, but they all have data quality issues to different degrees. In general... (my conclusion) > Leaving your baby to cry it out is helpful for most babies. > But it's not recommended for babies younger than 6 months. > Some experts recommend even waiting until 12 months, because month 6-12 is critical for developing emotional regulation that occur with help of parent intervention. >…

I'd add: > When babies are sleep-trained (with the "cry it out" method), they don't actually sleep (much) longer; they wake up as often but have learned to not signal their parents.

> they wake up as often but have learned to not signal their parents

To instinctively avoid signaling the predators in the absence of their parents as an evolutionary trait...

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#502

Post by [deleted] »

0xEFF wrote: post #306
conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

It's curious years of good nights of sleep and a happy child enrages you. We sleep trained our son at 7 months. He cried for 90 minutes the first night, then slept soundly until 7 am. The second night he cried for 45 minutes then slept until 7 am. He didn't cry the third night. Every night since he's slept peacefully from 8 PM until 7 AM and asks to go to bed when he gets tired. He's happy during the day unless somet…

[deleted]

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#503

Post by jjulius »

unity1001 wrote: post #496
remote_phone wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you are getting enraged is a huge part of the problem. Keep your own morality to yourself and your own family. If you don’t want to use cry it out, then that’s your decision. The fact you project onto others is the problem and it’s none of your business. Cry it out is effective and works wonders for families and it has no side effects, as mentioned in the article itself.

> The fact that you are getting enraged is a huge part of the problem. Keep your own morality to yourself and your own family. How about you people keep your destructive practice to yourself and stop advocating it, less, rationalizing it and pushing it to mainstream. And with 'you people', i mean the US, because the only place where this thing seems to be a 'thing' and is even being advocated by 'professionals' is th…

How about respecting every parents choices for their own family? How about you step away from HN for a bit and get some fresh air before responding to another comment in this thread? You're obviously very heated and it's not constructive.

You are making massive judgements about people while simultaneously demonstrating how little you know about what actually happens when you let someone "cry it out".

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#504

Post by unity1001 »

jjulius wrote: post #492
unity1001 wrote: post #482

[flagged]

It's French, too. See, "Le Pause". And you're demonstrating a sheer amount of ignorance with your rush to judgement here. The children are not neglected and are checked in on and comforted by the parents during sleep training.

> It's French, too

There are great behavioral and cultural differences in between the south of France and the North.

> And you're demonstrating a sheer amount of ignorance with your rush to judgement here.

Im not. Co-sleeping, close proximity, touching are evolutionary traits of all mammals including humans. The majority of the mammal infants also cry to their parents and their parents attend them. If the cries are not answered, the infant shuts up to avoid signaling the predators in the absence of the parents. The parents not responding to the infant's signal is not a good thing in any mammal species. Even more so for humans.

> The children are not neglected and are checked in on and comforted by the parents during sleep training.

That's not what the child will instinctively interpret. As far as he is concerned, he is either abandoned and his life is at risk, or the parents are prioritizing their other children for survival.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#505

Post by jjulius »

unity1001 wrote: post #504
jjulius wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's French, too. See, "Le Pause". And you're demonstrating a sheer amount of ignorance with your rush to judgement here. The children are not neglected and are checked in on and comforted by the parents during sleep training.

> It's French, too There are great behavioral and cultural differences in between the south of France and the North. > And you're demonstrating a sheer amount of ignorance with your rush to judgement here. Im not. Co-sleeping, close proximity, touching are evolutionary traits of all mammals including humans. The majority of the mammal infants also cry to their parents and their parents attend them. If the cries are n…

>There are great behavioral and cultural differences in between the south of France and the North.

So you agree it's not just the US doing it, despite your lambasting only that country multiple times.

>That's not what the child will instinctively interpret. As far as he is concerned, he is either abandoned and his life is at risk, or the parents are prioritizing their other children for survival.

Cite your source.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#506

Post by unity1001 »

jjulius wrote: post #503
unity1001 wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that you are getting enraged is a huge part of the problem. Keep your own morality to yourself and your own family. How about you people keep your destructive practice to yourself and stop advocating it, less, rationalizing it and pushing it to mainstream. And with 'you people', i mean the US, because the only place where this thing seems to be a 'thing' and is even being advocated by 'professionals' is th…

How about respecting every parents choices for their own family? How about you step away from HN for a bit and get some fresh air before responding to another comment in this thread? You're obviously very heated and it's not constructive. You are making massive judgements about people while simultaneously demonstrating how little you know about what actually happens when you let someone "cry it out".

> How about respecting every parents choices for their own family?

The immense cacophonies that the industries in the US produce, eventually permate to, and induce chaos and problems in other countries. This includes medical industries.

> You're obviously very heated and it's not constructive.

Im not heated. Im not Angloamerican. This is not 'heated' discussion where I live. Avoid projecting your cultural paradigm to random people on the Internet.

> You are making massive judgements about people while simultaneously demonstrating how little you know about what actually happens when you let someone "cry it out".

Occasionally checking up on the child while leaving the child to cry itself to sleep is not 'something different' like you propose. So, no.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#507

Post by unity1001 »

jjulius wrote: post #494
unity1001 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My genes didn’t get the memo Don't worry. Your gene pool will eventually select itself out via that mindset.

You need to chill out on your judgemental posts. You're coming into this thread fast and hot and it is not constructive. Your quick reactions are demonstrating your own ignorance on this subject.

[flagged]

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#508

Post by Xixi »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #453
Xixi wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to find sources about slavery in Asia. "Slavery in Korea formally existed from antiquity up to the 20th century. Slavery was very important in medieval Korea; it was a major institution. [...] The Korean "nobi" system of slavery peaked between the 15th and 17th centuries and then declined in the 18th and 19th centuries." [1] "The Mongol Empire (1206-1368) had a tremendous impact on slavery across Eurasi…

Mongols weren't exactly 20th and 21st century were they? I had no idea about Korean slavery that existed till the 20th century. Why aren't these parts included in history curriculum?

I'm not sure what you mean, but I don't think many countries still had legal slavery going into the 20th century, outside of the Arab peninsula.

In Korea it was officially abolished in 1894 (although it took a few decades to eradicate). In my own country, France, slavery was abolished in 1794 (in Europe) and in 1848 (in all colonies and oversea territories). I think it's the general timeline for western Europe, first half of the 19th century. So not exactly 20th or 21st century either.

Of course, slavery itself (especially related to prostitution) is still ongoing pretty much everywhere, but it's not legal. And then there's war: forced work (Germany and Japan during WWII), and arguably conscription could count as a form of slavery too...

I'm pretty sure I learned about it at school in France, although of course not each country individually. Not sure about your specific country and history curriculum.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#509

Post by gsinclair »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #144
coredog64 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We co-slept with all three kids and caught flak for it from the pediatrician. She was certain that one or both parents were going to roll over onto the kids and squish them. Very pleased we did it, but you may have to stand your ground with well-meaning but ignorant people.

Your pediatrician is ignorant about SIDS risks? They are much more likely to be informed about this matter than you, with your n=3 anecdote.

There are a range of reasons why the paediatrician may not be giving the full story. Most particularly, they’re toeing the party (AAP) line, which is known to be more conservative than is needed.

Also, population-level data should not be the only input into an individual decision.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#510

Post by shaklee3 »

unity1001 wrote: post #471
naasking wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the odds that the rest of the world and entire history of humankind were mistaken the whole time, until some behaviorists came along and figured it all out in the last century? There are many cases where all of humanity has been doing something that we only recently decided was wrong. For instance, slavery. Certainly the odds aren't good that this is true of everything humans do, but the odds that some of…

[flagged]

except if you read the article and study that has meaningful data shows it's a net positive. so despite your preconceived notions of a baby crying being mentally damaging, there is no evidence to suggest that. on the contrary, everyone is happier and gets more sleep.
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