What happens when babies are left to cry it out? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#471

Post by unity1001 » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:52 AM UTC

naasking wrote: post #275

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

> What are the odds that the rest of the world and entire history of humankind were mistaken the whole time, until some behaviorists came along and figured it all out in the last century? There are many cases where all of humanity has been doing something that we only recently decided was wrong. For instance, slavery. Certainly the odds aren't good that this is true of everything humans do, but the odds that some of…

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#472

Post by gsinclair » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:53 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #273

giraffe_lady wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of adaptively useful, maybe even optimal behaviors can negatively affect enjoyment of life . The world we live in isn't the one we evolved for, and behaviors and adaptations useful in our evolutionary past can be painful or detrimental to individuals and society now . Selective pressure is no longer meaningfully applied to our species, so we won't further adapt to our situation except intentionally and at our…

Sure, severe abuse can have lasting impact, but we are talking about babies crying for a bit. Kids have a thousand innane reasons to cry. Having thousand and one doesn't make that much of a difference. For all concerned, I don't have kids and I don't intend to.

“prunning” and “innane” — too many ens!

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#473

Post by lazide » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:53 AM UTC

0xEFF wrote: post #306

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

It's curious years of good nights of sleep and a happy child enrages you. We sleep trained our son at 7 months. He cried for 90 minutes the first night, then slept soundly until 7 am. The second night he cried for 45 minutes then slept until 7 am. He didn't cry the third night. Every night since he's slept peacefully from 8 PM until 7 AM and asks to go to bed when he gets tired. He's happy during the day unless somet…

In my experience, when someone thinks they should be able to do it, but can't do it, and suffers from the consequences of that - you'll get that kind of reaction. Not saying it's what's happening here, but I've seen it a lot.

Difficulty getting themselves to get their kids vaccinated (the screaming or crying is hard!) is a big factor behind the antivax movement, IMO.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#474

Post by gsinclair » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:56 AM UTC

fipar wrote: post #334

rcpt wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> co-sleep Suffocation risk is real. Don't do this.

Our pediatricians told us risk from suffocation is associated with bad co-sleep practices, not "just with" co-sleep (in our country, not the US, and I'm quoting "just with" because I don't know how to put that better, I'm trying to make the point that if bad practices aren't followed, the risk of SIDS is comparable to babies that sleep alone). This includes co-sleeping when at least one of the parents is a smoker, or…

You can add my anecdotal experience to yours.

Co-sleeping seemed like the cheat code to getting baby boy to sleep through the night.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#475

Post by unity1001 » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:56 AM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #420

naasking wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the odds that the rest of the world and entire history of humankind were mistaken the whole time, until some behaviorists came along and figured it all out in the last century? There are many cases where all of humanity has been doing something that we only recently decided was wrong. For instance, slavery. Certainly the odds aren't good that this is true of everything humans do, but the odds that some of…

There is way too much romanticization of a false past here in this larger HN discussion. Yeah, sleep patterns were different, and many people slept with their infants. Infant mortality was also higher, as was maternal mortality, and corporal punishment was common. Sleep-deprived women with piles of children were not spending loving moments staring into their babies' eyes; they were smacking the slightly older childre…

> There is way too much romanticization of a false past here in this larger HN discussion

Some stuff is evolutionary. Co-sleeping is seen in all mammal species. And its an important part of the group sentiment, including the social support it brings. The lack of it causes anxiety in mammal species. Even domestic cats prefer to take care of their young in groups of mothers until the kittens grow up.

> This kid cried every time a fart came. At some point you just need to learn...

...that those farts have been causing pain in his abdomen or scrotum. Its amazing how it did not occur to you and instead you let the kid to just 'go through' it.

> England and France in the 1780s for instance it was extraordinarily common to simply ship your baby out to the country so you could work or maintain your aristocratic figure

Inbreeding, negligent and sociopathic aristocrats are never good examples for anything related to the basic tenets of human civilization. Less, parenting. Sheeesh. If your parenting morning star is murderous 18th century aristocrats who starved their people to be able to live in extravaganza with their powdered wigs...

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#476

Post by unity1001 » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:58 AM UTC

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #440

heavyset_go wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me From the outside, American culture around child-rearing seems like there is an adversarial relationship with tinges of resentment when it comes to how parents see children. A lot of the tough love type of parenting seems to come from a place of pacifying parents, giving them what they want, over their burdensome children with "pr…

There isn’t really an “AmerIvan culture around rearing children”. America large variations in behaviors. If American parenting was completely as you suggest, how do we have a generation of professional victims or constant discussions of “helicopter parenting” or “participation trophies”?

> There isn’t really an “AmerIvan culture around rearing children”. America large variations in behaviors.

There isn't any society in the world where such 'leaving kids to cry it out' is advocated. Leave aside anywhere its so mainstream that it can come to a place like HN.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#477

Post by lazide » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:58 AM UTC

thewhitetulip wrote: post #463

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still find slavery in Africa and the Middle East. So, no, not telling at all.

That is fucked up. also Inca and Aztechs were from south america right? there is also a new form of slavery currently active in the US where immigrants are brought to work and their passports are kept with their "employer" until xyz condition. so slavery still exists but it is no longer a government policy as it used to be in US I don't understand how, in the 21st century can we have slaves or bonded labourers. Apall…

People now are the same as people then, just different fashions and widgets.

The 'new form' of slavery you're describing sounds like indentured servitude. Definitely not new to the US (though now illegal)! Benjamin Franklin was indentured for 2 years when he was a teenager to his older brother, and frankly was not a fan of the practice.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#478

Post by Auracle » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 4:59 AM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #178

andrewclunn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SIDS risk being parents rolling on top of and crushing / asphyxiating the baby. We just gloss over most of this sort of death by calling it SIDS to avoid having to charge the parents with a crime.

I'm convinced most of the issues with rolling on babies is people who take medication or drink. Maybe I'm wrong. SIDS is totally different.

I've had to roll my wife off of our dog before, and she doesn't take sleep medication or drink. The dog would have been able to protest enough to get her to stir on her own, and probably has - I was just coming to bed at the time.

A baby would not have been able to. Some people are hard sleepers, and even if you're usually not you probably still have days where you are.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#479

Post by unity1001 » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 5:00 AM UTC

GatorD42 wrote: post #239

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

The article states no long term negative effects have been found, compared to positive short term findings. There’s been a wide range of child-rearing practices across cultures and history, including infanticide. Probably no culture has gotten it exactly right, but this practice is not that far outside the norm as other practices from other cultures.

> The article states no long term negative effects have been found

The generations that have been neglected in this way have not reached their later ages en masse. Of course there would be no negative effects. That aside, repressed psychological damage is still damage.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#480

Post by Auracle » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 5:00 AM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #321

weakfortress wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be wrong. I suppose it's anecdata but a member of my family who works in pedatrics sees this regularly unfortunately. Usually it's these new-age parents that think co-sleeping is somehow beneficial. You fall into a deep enough sleep, it takes almost no time at all to seriously injure or kill your child. Frankly, co-sleeping with a baby is irresponsibility of the highest form. It may have worked for the GP b…

I coslept with all 7 of my children.

And you'd maybe need to do it with 700 more to kill one, but it's still a pretty substantial risk. They have bedside basinets where you can still drape an arm over - it seems like a good tradeoff to me.