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What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#441

Post by Xixi »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #427
thewhitetulip wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, only Europeans had slaves right? It is not like the entire world had them. In fact the word slave originates from Slavic people.. I don't think Asians ever had slaves in the history. The OP comment said " what are the odds that the rest of the world was wrong for a millenium and Americans figured it out in 100yrs" Edit: damn. non European had slaves. Didn't know it before. Wasn't definitely part of the history…

Is this parody/sarcasm/troll? At a minimum, Africans and Muslims had slaves. Pretty sure the Incas and Aztecs did. I lack data on Asia.

It's not hard to find sources about slavery in Asia.

"Slavery in Korea formally existed from antiquity up to the 20th century. Slavery was very important in medieval Korea; it was a major institution. [...] The Korean "nobi" system of slavery peaked between the 15th and 17th centuries and then declined in the 18th and 19th centuries." [1]

"The Mongol Empire (1206-1368) had a tremendous impact on slavery across Eurasia. While slaves played a minor role in pre-Imperial Mongolia, the Mongols saw people as a resource, to be distributed among the imperial family and used for imperial needs, like material goods. This view created a whole spectrum of dependency running from free men to full slaves." [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Korea

[2] https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-world-his...

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#442

Post by hammock »

chasil wrote: post #429
TeMPOraL wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not how it works, the first year is horrible. (...) things will get better when the kid grows older. Except when they won't. Our older daughter started having real sleep issues around when she was 1.5 years old. From that point on, every night was one of "those nights nothing works". Her sleeping schedule became quite consistent: roughly 21:00 - 05:00 if she didn't nap during the day, or 23:30 - 05:00 if she…

You might be aware of the pathway that generates melatonin. It begins with tryptophan, which can be converted either into niacin or serotonin. Taking a niacin supplement with tryptophan will boost the opposing pathway. Serotonin is itself the source of all melatonin. Adjusting diet is not as controversial as a hormone supplement. Do not attempt this while taking an SSRI, which can be deadly.

Take before bed, or any time of day?

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#443

Post by sircastor »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #419
jack_pp wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAD, I don't have kids but I'm curious why melatonin properly dosed would be seen as worse than crying to sleep. From what I've learned about melatonin it seems to me you did the right thing

Because it's a chemical ! A hormone ! Because you're dosing your kid with a drug ! You're taking the easy way out! You're using a shortcut to cover for your inability to endure the first few days of ${sleep training method}! These and similar kinds of bullshit judgements.

I think this is born out of puritan ethics attached to counter-culture “pure” living. Essentially all desired outcomes must be earned through righteous, hard work. Anything short of this effort is cheating.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#444

Post by burnished »

ineptech wrote: post #272
conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

That evolutionary instinct came from a time when humans lived in communal support networks and new parents had help from extended family, and does not translate well to a world where Mom has to work 9-5 in an office a few months after birth. You might as well express shock that suburbanites don't supplement their diets by foraging for fruit and mushrooms. Besides, it's not like parents 10K years ago had the option to…

My favorite is “babies cry because the quiet ones got forgotten”

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#445

Post by refurb »

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

I had the same perspective.

Why wouldnt a baby cry when someone isn’t around?

Why wouldn’t a parent want to comfort a crying child?

I understand the concern around developing bad habits, but those can be dealt with as they arrive.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#446

Post by Aeolun »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #434
TeMPOraL wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a chemical ! A hormone ! Because you're dosing your kid with a drug ! You're taking the easy way out! You're using a shortcut to cover for your inability to endure the first few days of ${sleep training method}! These and similar kinds of bullshit judgements.

While I reserve any judgement on GP’s use of melatonin to help their child sleep, I think the tone of your comment indicates a confidence in pharmacology that is difficult to justify, or at least betrays significant immaturity about the complexity of these sorts of decisions…

I think the argument is more along the lines of a lot of people automatically assuming something like this would be bad without any direct justification.

The same people that will then feed their kids heaps of antibiotics for a viral infection.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#447

Post by grugagag »

chasil wrote: post #429
TeMPOraL wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not how it works, the first year is horrible. (...) things will get better when the kid grows older. Except when they won't. Our older daughter started having real sleep issues around when she was 1.5 years old. From that point on, every night was one of "those nights nothing works". Her sleeping schedule became quite consistent: roughly 21:00 - 05:00 if she didn't nap during the day, or 23:30 - 05:00 if she…

You might be aware of the pathway that generates melatonin. It begins with tryptophan, which can be converted either into niacin or serotonin. Taking a niacin supplement with tryptophan will boost the opposing pathway. Serotonin is itself the source of all melatonin. Adjusting diet is not as controversial as a hormone supplement. Do not attempt this while taking an SSRI, which can be deadly.

> Do not attempt this while taking an SSRI, which can be deadly

Attempt what, taking vitamin B3 and SSRI antidepressants?

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#448

Post by Aeolun »

ineptech wrote: post #272
conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

That evolutionary instinct came from a time when humans lived in communal support networks and new parents had help from extended family, and does not translate well to a world where Mom has to work 9-5 in an office a few months after birth. You might as well express shock that suburbanites don't supplement their diets by foraging for fruit and mushrooms. Besides, it's not like parents 10K years ago had the option to…

> You might as well express shock that suburbanites don't supplement their diets by foraging for fruit and mushrooms.

We do forage for fruits and mushrooms. We just forage inside different locations :)

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#449

Post by ycombobreaker »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #87
brink wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have an obsession I'm so tired of the condescending tone that is usually taken for granted when talking about traditional American culture. Can we please stop this? It's just a cultural difference.

This is what you get when you treat everybody else in the same way, by telling them cosleeping is evil. I'm very bitter of the opposite, we have been taught it's wrong to co-sleep the entire time. Lucky, mother nature gave us some help. After we co-slept for 3 years with our baby, on the second one they wanted to take the baby off my wife the night in the hospital (baby sleeps on mom's chest). I understand the concer…

> This is what you get when you treat everybody else in the same way, by telling them cosleeping is evil.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

I am an American, and my family's pediatrician gave cosleeping advice when asked, despite discouraging it. I'll reiterate GP's point: labeling a cultural difference as a national "obsession" is unwarranted.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#450

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

ycombobreaker wrote: post #449
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you get when you treat everybody else in the same way, by telling them cosleeping is evil. I'm very bitter of the opposite, we have been taught it's wrong to co-sleep the entire time. Lucky, mother nature gave us some help. After we co-slept for 3 years with our baby, on the second one they wanted to take the baby off my wife the night in the hospital (baby sleeps on mom's chest). I understand the concer…

> This is what you get when you treat everybody else in the same way, by telling them cosleeping is evil. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. I am an American, and my family's pediatrician gave cosleeping advice when asked, despite discouraging it. I'll reiterate GP's point: labeling a cultural difference as a national "obsession" is unwarranted.

Agree, sorry for my tone earlier. Apologized in a different comment but I commented all over the place.
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