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Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

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Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#21

"Instead, it focuses on the (true) facts it wants you to think about, and ignores other true facts that contradict them or add context." What an observation I wonder if this applies to the article itself in like a meta-ironic way.

A law/policy/mechanism to ban misinformation, on the basis of it being factually incorrect, is doomed; this article is explaining why.

Nobody is claiming that there isn't a major problem, just that one proposed solution is fundamentally misguided.

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#22

Intentionally omitting context in order to mislead is still lying . Communicating with the intent of deception is lying. That's absolutely a common meaning of the term. Lying: "The sky is hi-vis yellow" Also lying: "Under Biden's EPA—can you believe this, folks?—the sky is blue. Here with us today is a scientist and fellow with the Bullshit Institute for Mercenary Science who will tell us why blue is the worst color…

Fine, but it still invalidates “false facts” as a bright-line rule for algorithmically determining what is lies and misinformation, which is the entire original point that this article is a tangent off of.

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#23
Does anyone remember "gamergate"? Hear me out, but I don't thing we have really come to terms with the fallout yet.

The industry was legitimately overrun with nepotism and disclosure problems. They benefited from a toxic and obsessive audience for years. Then their audience turned on them (for a mix of legitimate and illegitimate reasons), but the industry players were the ones who held the microphone. They got to define the story as they saw it - and absolved themselves of any wrongdoing.

And now that toxic ball of highly-technical male youths have grown into a political entity that has too much time on their hands and distrusts media and victim narratives as a rule.

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#24

Does anyone remember "gamergate"? Hear me out, but I don't thing we have really come to terms with the fallout yet. The industry was legitimately overrun with nepotism and disclosure problems. They benefited from a toxic and obsessive audience for years. Then their audience turned on them (for a mix of legitimate and illegitimate reasons), but the industry players were the ones who held the microphone. They got to de…

Better yet, most of us don’t even need to read the Early Life section to figure out who is behind things.

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#25

I think the original thesis is correct, but my best counterexample is the Covington Kids where the media had the original video which gave them the full context, yet they chose to hide that evidence and instead advance the idea that somehow the kids were white supremacists based on the pixels from one close-up photo. I think another reasonable counterexample is Jussie Smollett's catastrophe, where any fleeting scruti…

Interestingly, a lawsuit about that was thrown out for the same reason given in this article: https://www.businessinsider.com/covington-kid-nicholas-sandm... Basically, the news was just reporting what someone said, so no foul. > He objected to widely-reported statements by Phillips to the effect that Sandmann had "blocked" him and "would not allow him to retreat." > But the judge said that these are "objectively unv…

Legal issues aren't really the question. The Covington incident is an example of brazen lying by the media. They had the full video and chose to wildly misrepresent it. That they did so because they were reporting what someone else said is completely irrelevant. They knowingly lied and did so knowing they would be caught.

There is a reason the majority of the public distrusts the mainstream media. Mainstream media outlets are inveterate liars.

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#26
From my short stint as a tech columnist, the number one goal is to get the copy in by deadline. So deliberate lies, not so much, just no time to craft a great lie, joking/not joking. Getting it exactly right in a short time frame, easy to be approximately right, which in some cases is interpreted not well.

One small reference: https://gizmodo.com/i-fooled-millions-into-thinking-chocolat...

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that definition, everything is a lie because you can not convey all relevant information ever. I.e. all information exchange is a partial information exchange. Intent-based analysis is not useful, because you can't know the intent and also the intent doesn't make any difference as to what the effect will be - that well-intended source can have the same or worse misleading effect as an ill-intended source, and the…

You are correct when you say that you cannot convey all relevant information. But your conclusion is still wrong. For example, a lot of Covid reporting really annoyed me, on both sides. One side would say "Here's facts A and B; see, the vaccine is working!". The other side would say "Here's facts C and D; see, the vaccine is killing people!". Over and over again. What we needed was the article that said "Here's A, B,…

I don’t know where you get your news from, but I have read dozens of articles where they mention potential harm from COVID vaccines along with pointing out that overall vaccination is still recommended due to the rarity of the potential harm versus the overall benefit.

Here’s the first example I found: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/11/health/cdc-vaccine-heart-...

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#28

Does anyone remember "gamergate"? Hear me out, but I don't thing we have really come to terms with the fallout yet. The industry was legitimately overrun with nepotism and disclosure problems. They benefited from a toxic and obsessive audience for years. Then their audience turned on them (for a mix of legitimate and illegitimate reasons), but the industry players were the ones who held the microphone. They got to de…

[flagged]

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#29
There's a lot of vigorous dissent here because lying requires intent: One's statement(s) must be intended to deceive people. I think this formally/technically correct dictionary-wise, but kinda missing the point.

If your goal is to help people understand media better, they do need to know that most media deception is accomplished by simply avoiding relevant facts rather than voicing outright falsehoods. In other words, as a media consumer, your primary question should be, "What are they not telling me?" This is why it helps to multi-source your news.

That is a very instructive lesson to learn - something we should teach kids in school, really.

Re: Sorry, I still think I am right about the media rarely lying

#30

Does anyone remember "gamergate"? Hear me out, but I don't thing we have really come to terms with the fallout yet. The industry was legitimately overrun with nepotism and disclosure problems. They benefited from a toxic and obsessive audience for years. Then their audience turned on them (for a mix of legitimate and illegitimate reasons), but the industry players were the ones who held the microphone. They got to de…

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No, just no. It was about the world’s worst ex-boyfriend riling up a hate mob. The “ethics in journalism” pretext was adopted to deflect criticism but it was always a shameful disservice to anyone who legitimately cared about the issue. Among other things, note how the hate was focused on a few women who were not journalists and how frequently the attackers denied that harassment was even happening: if their concern was journalistic ethics, they’d have focused on actual journalists and been quick to condemn the attackers who were making their cause look bad. If you wanted to tackle the issues of reviewers being too friendly with the producers, you’d be looking at the major studios who produce most of the games - not an indie developer and someone who never reviewed her game.
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