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What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

bbc.com

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Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#301

Post by unit_circle »

I haven't seen a single top level comment that demonstrated a complete reading and understanding. Some even willingly admit an inability to process the information. Funny, because I thought this was actually remarkably good scientific journalism! I guess this demonstrates why this technical reporting is rare. It took my wife and I about an hour to read and discuss the entire article.

My main takeaway is the low fidelity of existing studies and methods.

I found it interesting how small the studies are. Maybe they are challenging to operate at scale? What is the point of even talking about a trial with 43 participants split into 3 groups? That seems little better than the anecdotes presented here.

Also interesting to me that cortisol level and wrist actionography are the only quantitative methods... As mentioned in the article (and intuitively) both seem deeply flawed! Perhaps new methods are the next frontier for this research.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#302

Post by oaktrout »

number6 wrote: post #62
oaktrout wrote: post #32

I read the primary study and admittedly skimmed the very long article. So far as I can tell the takeaway is: after baby is 6 months old there are no observed downsides to sleep training, is that correct?

Yes. Makes no difference if sleep trained or not.

To be clear, on my read there were no difference as far as downsides, it seemed to improve the mental health of the parents and it taught the babies to return to sleep without needing intervention from the parents, which I would argue are major upsides.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#303

Post by zeroonetwothree »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #274

Our baby will be 5 months in a few days. My partner and I both had kind of harsh upbringings (as in, our parents left us alone to cry among other things). So when we found out we were expecting, we bought a crib and said we'd be tough parents (though maybe less tough than ours). Turns out we caved. Too hard to leave a crying baby especially because, instinctively, we know that it's his only way to communicate and he…

Well the advice is usually to start at 6 months so you are a bit early anyway

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#305

Post by Gordonjcp »

ineptech wrote: post #272
conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

That evolutionary instinct came from a time when humans lived in communal support networks and new parents had help from extended family, and does not translate well to a world where Mom has to work 9-5 in an office a few months after birth. You might as well express shock that suburbanites don't supplement their diets by foraging for fruit and mushrooms. Besides, it's not like parents 10K years ago had the option to…

[flagged]

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#306

Post by 0xEFF »

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

It's curious years of good nights of sleep and a happy child enrages you.

We sleep trained our son at 7 months. He cried for 90 minutes the first night, then slept soundly until 7 am. The second night he cried for 45 minutes then slept until 7 am. He didn't cry the third night. Every night since he's slept peacefully from 8 PM until 7 AM and asks to go to bed when he gets tired. He's happy during the day unless something obvious is distressing him. Most notably he's happy and peaceful from 5 PM until 8 PM when I see other parents suffering from witching hour and unexplained melt downs.

Isn't a few hours of discomfort in exchange for years of good sleep and happiness a good trade off?

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#307

Post by The_Colonel »

beaned wrote: post #13

I wish that when they included this line: "Modern Mayan mothers, for example, expressed shock when they heard that in the US, babies were put to sleep in a separate room." That they followed it up with why Mayan mothers prefer to sleep with the baby. Is it just a default cultural expectation or do they have their own reason for it?

TBH it seems kind of shocking to European me as well. Not sleeping in the same bed I understand for sure, but putting the baby in a separate room seems ... unnecessarily cruel?

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#308

Post by awillen »

eslaught wrote: post #286
conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

In case it's not obvious to everyone reading here, no one recommends using the cry it out method on infants younger than six months. For younger infants, you should always respond as quickly as possible. Our doctor recommended that we have at least one person sleeping in the same room, but in a different bed, for the first six months. Then we gradually transitioned to allowing him to put himself to sleep, and I final…

> In case it's not obvious to everyone reading here, no one recommends using the cry it out method on infants younger than six months.

This is wrong. Various methods recommend starting as early as four months (and some recommend a less-strict version that starts earlier but only leaves children to cry for a shorter period of time before coming to get them, as opposed to fully crying it out).

1. https://www.parents.com/baby/sleep/basics/the-ferber-method-...

2. https://www.healthline.com/health/baby/cry-it-out-method

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#309

Post by NikolaNovak »

conqueso wrote: post #150

The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…

I have two kids now. We are lucky blessed and privileged with amount of support we have, from family and work and government (Canada:). And yet it's hard. I try to get a little bit less "enraged" and "blood boiling" at other parents' survival strategies. If you have to go to work next morning to pay rent (which,y know, hasn't historically been the case so evolution is no use) and don't have a traditional support network of 500bc Greece and haven't slept for the last 6 weeks... It's very easy to say "it's a sacrifice parents should make" but it feels a bit of a lack of empathy.

Different kids parents and circumstances. I've really tried to tone down my judgement of other parenting techniques as I know they can easily judge my choices especially context free.

It's hard.

Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?

#310

Post by epolanski »

agumonkey wrote: post #290
epolanski wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can't be heard every single time, the usual example of a parent driving, he can't just stop the car and start soothing the baby ignoring the rest of the world, logistics or obligations. That's just not feasible nor it can't be 100% an obligation to always respond every single crying. I think the article does a good job pointing out that after 6 months and definitely after 12 you do need to start let the baby…

Sure, I can't be absolutist. But whenever I can, I do something. Respond. For the car, you might not be able to reach, but emit something that convey concern and care.

What if that approach of over protecting brings up a future lazy, spoiled, weak willed adult that will conduct miserable lives because up to 36 months all their brain saw is that crying always got them attentions and everything they wanted?

You don't know whether your approach is the best one, I don't, speak with as many professionals you can.

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