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On ‘Plant-Based’

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Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#191

Post by ripe »

vel0city wrote: post #133
tshaddox wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote you used says “food based on plants was the default.” Seems pretty deliberately worded to not claim that most humans never ate meat.

They're directly suggesting that food should have labels to let people know when foods are not wholly plant based. It seems they're really arguing that people should only rarely (if ever) eat non-plant-based foods and should avoid foods with animal products in them, because by default we should be eating plants not non-plants. We didn't eat plants by default , we ate a mixture of plants and meats and other animal-der…

You are now challenging the statement about plants being the "default" food. (Maybe you are not the original responder; I can't tell on my phone UI)

I think you're going to have to back that up with a citation.

For most of history, ordinary people could afford only plant based food. Meat was occasional. Industrial meat production in the West changed the economics of that.

Vegans are not the only people who care about our unsustainable practices. We all should. We could start by properly accounting for the externalities, ecological footprint, worker exploitation, and yes, the built-in cruelty to animals. I think the OP's suggestion to label animal parts is a step in the right direction.

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#192

Post by ripe »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #135
tshaddox wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote you used says “food based on plants was the default.” Seems pretty deliberately worded to not claim that most humans never ate meat.

That’s not true either. It was only plant based when they couldn’t obtain meat. Supplementing plant foods was the default when there was no prey available is more accurate.

Evidence? We're talking about agricultural societies, too, not about hunters.

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#193

Post by vel0city »

ripe wrote: post #191
vel0city wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're directly suggesting that food should have labels to let people know when foods are not wholly plant based. It seems they're really arguing that people should only rarely (if ever) eat non-plant-based foods and should avoid foods with animal products in them, because by default we should be eating plants not non-plants. We didn't eat plants by default , we ate a mixture of plants and meats and other animal-der…

You are now challenging the statement about plants being the "default" food. (Maybe you are not the original responder; I can't tell on my phone UI) I think you're going to have to back that up with a citation. For most of history, ordinary people could afford only plant based food. Meat was occasional. Industrial meat production in the West changed the economics of that. Vegans are not the only people who care about…

> For most of history, ordinary people could afford only plant based food.

Most of history predates the idea of money.

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#194

Post by ripe »

lambdaba wrote: post #95
vel0city wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for most of history, for most people, food based on plants was the default and still should be. Right, and all those cave paintings depicting hunting scenes were entirely for sport. There are no instances in the wild of any species similar to humans eating meat I guess. Ancient writings where they reference meats, they were really talking about Beyond Meat. We've evolved to eat plants, yes. We've also evolved t…

Evolved to eat plans as an option, yes, but not as a preference. It is so hard to get enough plant calories without being bloated and with difficulties digesting, and that's with modern, highly selected for plants... My bet would be we evolved to eat animal fats and protein, and that is most of the selection pressure for our big brains too. Hunting while being a rather frail primate takes brains.

That's an interesting theory, but do you have anything to back that up with? Plenty of people throughout the world live quite well on plant-based diets without these problems you mention. I know, because I am one of them.

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#195

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Bedon292 wrote: post #86
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #66

I have a can of bug spray that is "plant-based" (eucalyptus oil). Ricin is "plant-based," as is cyanide.

For bug spray I think it does make sense, at least to some level. Natural means of bug repellant like eucalyptus, lemongrass, or citronella seem to have less side effects than something like DEET. And may be the preference if there isn't a high level of insect borne illnesses in the area.

I doesn't "repel" them. It kills them dead.

Apparently, Eucalyptus is quite toxic, but smells a bit like cinnamon.

Koalas are tough little dropbears.

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#196

Post by tedmiston »

Plant-based does not imply meatless, vegan, or vegetarian. Many people who eat a mostly plant diet call themselves "plant-based" even if they e.g., eat meat 10–20% of the time, or eat only chicken for instance.

It is its own category: where vegetarian to binary omnivore has become a spectrum. The author's confusion derives from trying to fit a round peg in the existing square holes.

One can eat largely salads and vegetables with occasional meat and still be plant-based.

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#197

Post by dmitriid »

mokkol wrote: post #184
dmitriid wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're saying that vegan people have to use milk alternatives like almond milk. Which is certainly not the case. For vegans it certainly is the case. Vegans don't eat food that comes from animals. Milk is one such product. So vegans will definitely use milk alternatives.

Mammals don't need to drink milk from other animals. So no, it isn't the case. Some people do drink almond milk of course, also meat eaters btw.

A lot of mammals also eat meat, and most herbivores will not pass up the opportunity to get meat/eggs/fish into their diet, so...

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#198

Post by steve_adams_86 »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #131
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are heaps of people who thrive strictly on plants who aren’t bloated or struggling to digest their food or get calories in.

Maybe so, but protein is a different story. How many professional athletes are true vegans for extended periods outside of Tom Brady, who is kind of psycho to begin with.

The protein problem is a myth. And what percentage of the population is involved in athleticism that requires significant amounts of protein? This scenario is so uncommon as to be irrelevant to the average person.

I run, dive, lift weights, and rock climb without any issues. If I did it competitively I could easily supplement with plant proteins. Virtually anyone I know who eats meat and trains hard has also supplemented with whey or something similar. There doesn’t appear to be a meaningful difference when eating plants.

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#199

Post by steve_adams_86 »

roflyear wrote: post #187
sudden_dystopia wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but protein is a different story. How many professional athletes are true vegans for extended periods outside of Tom Brady, who is kind of psycho to begin with.

Not hard to google that. There's even a website: https://www.greatveganathletes.com/ I think that's a silly argument anyway, if we're discussing health. Professionals do plenty of stuff that is awful for them to get performance gains. Steroids, exercise routines that are very punishing on the body long-term (plenty of power lifters who can barely even walk after retirement and they aren't that old), etc.. I am not su…

I think one exception is that some fish seem to promote health in moderation. I personally don’t find it worth supporting the fishing industry or killing countless animals to get the fish I want, so I’m content without that in my diet. And like you mentioned, supplementing omega is an option (even if it isn’t as effective with vegan options — I’m not sure).

Re: On ‘Plant-Based’

#200

Post by philwelch »

vel0city wrote: post #89
philwelch wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of how lithium ion batteries are made?

Are you aware of how oil production proceeds fund global terrorism and warlords? Guess you can't buy any gasoline, since some % of oil is sold on the market from warlords committing atrocities in their countries. Did you know when you buy gasoline at the pump you're supporting a market which buys missiles for Saudi Arabia to bomb Yemen?

My point exactly. It’s almost impossible to maintain these kinds of standards with our modern global supply chains.
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