To people bringing anecdotes of their neighbors/friends kids crying forever and calling it an abuse, just one very important note.
Sleep training is lasting 1-2 weeks. If kid is crying forever, what you hear is not a sleep training.
What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
181–190 of 644 posts
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your pediatrician is ignorant about SIDS risks? They are much more likely to be informed about this matter than you, with your n=3 anecdote.
I'm sure they are very educated about SIDS. But their job is to give you enough information on the pros and cons so you can make a well informed decision yourself. It isn't the job of any expert to tell you if you should or should not do something. Humans have been cosleeping with their infants since time began. Clearly there are some serious pros to it. An expert who is truly good will never tell you what to do. The…
>Humans have been cosleeping with their infants since time began.
Take a look at a graph of infant mortality rates since time began, chief. Appealing to "this is how things have always been" does not really work in this case.
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this basically suggesting that all SIDS are essentially suffocation (or close to that?)
Nope, the paper goes into it. It's saying some proportion is, but it's unknown (and likely unknowable) what the actual proportion really is, for a multitude of reasons. It's unlikely to be most. There are a lot of similar issues with mortality data in general, but kids are a particularly sensitive topic. For instamce, a large portion of 'gun cleaning accidents' are suicides. How many has changed with the times and th…
Thanks for the summary, so there is still a portion that's really unknown.
And yes, I suspected it was hard to get proper data
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#184The fact that this is so commonplace in my culture (USA) is frustrating and enrages me. As a parent, it is your evolutionary instinct to comfort a crying infant. They are quite literally helpless and look to caretakers for all their needs. There's a deep seated biological reason it feels bad to ignore it. The fact that it is so uncommon in other cultures should make this obvious. What are the odds that the rest of th…
My parents' generation (in the UK) were physically beaten as children. It was a normal part of parenting and part of school. My hope is that one day we will consider this emotionally abusive behaviour as seriously as we we now look at physical abuse. Though I don't hold out much hope. Especially as there are still some people holding out for the right to hit their children even now.
My Uk school was still doing collective punishment beatings (“Who spoke?” (No-one replies) (30 boys get caned) ) in the early 80s.
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's mangled because humans are complex. A lot of the risks are from activities or issues that cause sleep problems -- alcohol, drugs, sleep apnea. What is the likelihood that a baby gets smothered? These all factor in. The risk decreases with age. Co-sleeping, generally, is much more dangerous than sleeping on their own in a proper crib. If it works for you, great. Some people take extraordinary steps to ensure it's…
I agree, but I disagree with your statement about being way safe. Research doesn't account for what happens when baby is in the crib and it doesn't sleep. So sure, you might have avoided SIDS, but the baby might die because the parent fell asleep while standing with the baby in their arms. P. S. Again sorry for my tone, I'm super angry for how the entire medicine treats Co-sleeping like a horrific thing So the resear…
> P. S. Again sorry for my tone, I'm super angry for how the entire medicine treats Co-sleeping like a horrific thing
This is a theme across all kinds of expertise. In my opinion a good expert will understand that the world isn't black and white. They'll understand that there are many, many more variables that go into a decision than their particular line of expertise. They'll understand their job is to clearly convey the risks and benefits that fall into their scope and more important they'll clearly state that they alone cannot make a decision for you.
Bad medical professionals think their expertise is all that should go into a decision. Good medical professionals will understand that there are countless other factors that go into a person's decision that fall well outside of the scope of their expertise.
Based on what I've observed over the last 3 years, there are plenty of "experts" out there who seem to think that only their line of expertise should go into any decision.
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's what I'm disagreeing with: there is less risk of the baby dying IN THE CRIB, but there isn't less risk of the baby dying overall, that's not assessed (and it would be very hard to prove), but the reality is just that. Then again, the risk factors of Co-sleeping are known and can be eliminated: put the bed on the floor, remove extra pillows, use light covers or no blankets, set the room temperature to something…
Sorry, but you’re wrong. Not only wrong, but confidently and smugly wrong. You think you know best but haven’t bothered to actually do any real research on this topic.
What does it mean to be "wrong" in this context? Maybe they've looked at the information and decided that the pros outweigh the risks? Who gets to decide that when such a decision is well outside the scope of science or facts? Such decisions fall into a persons values and risk assessments. No expert can, nor should, make such a decision for an individual.
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's what I'm disagreeing with: there is less risk of the baby dying IN THE CRIB, but there isn't less risk of the baby dying overall, that's not assessed (and it would be very hard to prove), but the reality is just that. Then again, the risk factors of Co-sleeping are known and can be eliminated: put the bed on the floor, remove extra pillows, use light covers or no blankets, set the room temperature to something…
Sorry, but you’re wrong. Not only wrong, but confidently and smugly wrong. You think you know best but haven’t bothered to actually do any real research on this topic.
Hey, sorry for my tone previously, I'm particularly irrational when it comes to co-sleeping due to being treated poorly due to my choice.
I did research based on 5 books and talking to professionals (extensively), my research stopped when I assessed that it's not as high risk as depicted by the verbiage used by some professionals at the hospital.
This is not my field of expertise, so of course my knowledge is limited.
I won't give recommendations from the medical perspective, but I will strongly suggest to reconsider the stance toward co-sleeping.
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#188I'm more interested in the long-term psychological effects of sleep training and how it affects a child's perception of "secure attachment" [1]. We sleep trained our oldest and did not our youngest and their personalities couldn't be more different. Of course, this may be entirely unrelated, but it's still something my wife and I have wondered about as we've learned more about it. [1] https://www.betterhelp.com/advic…
We didn't sleep train our oldest, but we did our other three. All of them are very different people (ages 5-13). Every kid is different, and I don't think you can attribute it exclusively (or even primarily) to any one thing most of the time.
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#189I find this interesting that human infants are the only ones to cry out and make lots of noise, it must have been recent historically as making yourself known to predators is generally not a good idea evolution wise.
Re: What happens when babies are left to cry it out?
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
The SIDS risk being parents rolling on top of and crushing / asphyxiating the baby. We just gloss over most of this sort of death by calling it SIDS to avoid having to charge the parents with a crime.
I'm convinced most of the issues with rolling on babies is people who take medication or drink. Maybe I'm wrong. SIDS is totally different.
I believe those cases are included in SIDS statistics. I can’t find it but NPR had a long informative show with a doctor talking about SIDS, she mentioned that if you take out overweight/drunk parents the risk of SIDS from co sleeping is actually very low
EDIT: Another important factor is where the sleeping occurs. A bed is very safe, a couch is not. She pointed out that an exhausted parent lying down with the child for an intentional nap is much better than them falling asleep sitting up on the couch.