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Remote work’s toll on cities

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Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#81

Post by throw10920 »

koheripbal wrote: post #22

> cities must let developers convert office buildings into housing This is an Activist piece - not an Analysis piece. You cannot trust facts reported in an article that's advocating change. It cherry picks a number of facts in order to further the arguments.

Thank you for making this distinction - it's a very useful one to have that I did not previously.

From the other nymag.com submissions on HN, and a look at their frontpage, and my past experiences with their articles, it seems like NYMag is an Activist news outlet, so this is not very surprising, if rather disappointing.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#82

Post by mavelikara »

danielrpa wrote: post #18

Cities exist to serve people's needs. The 2 existing models are a relic of a low technology past: suburbia with long car commutes to downtown, and dense cities built around facilitating mass daily movement to the office through subway/public transportation. Instead, we need self-sufficient neighborhoods catering to different lifestyles and needs (some higher density and walkable, others still car-centric but encourag…

> The 2 existing models are a relic of a low technology past:

Both the factors you mention - cars, and mass transportation - were huge technological advances of their times.

Technology has progressed since, so we might see different models evolve. But don't mistake those models to be permanent either.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#83

Post by TuringNYC »

Terretta wrote: post #4

It wouldn't devastate them if people could live above or around (walkable distance even in bad weather) where they work. It would revitalize them. The automobile society notion of residential far from workplace is just bad.

>> It wouldn't devastate them if people could live above or around (walkable distance even in bad weather) where they work.

So how would this work when you switch jobs, do you keep moving residences? That would be super-disruptive. Also, what if you switch jobs but you're in a timed-lease? What if you switch jobs and change residences but your kids are in a local school? These things get really complicated.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#84

Post by adamjcook »

deltarholamda wrote: post #34
koheripbal wrote: post #22

> cities must let developers convert office buildings into housing This is an Activist piece - not an Analysis piece. You cannot trust facts reported in an article that's advocating change. It cherry picks a number of facts in order to further the arguments.

> convert office buildings into housing Can't be done. Office buildings of significant size are not engineered for 24/7 human occupation. The sewer will be inadequate. The water will be inadequate. Retrofitting this would be spectacularly expensive, if it's even possible, as mechanical and plumbing chases are sized for the original design requirements and are difficult (if not impossible) to alter. It may be possible…

Detroit is doing it all over the place.

I live in an office building that was first opened in 1914 and was converted into residential units.

Another 18-floor office building across my street is being converted as we speak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Artists_Theatre_Buildin...).

The Park Avenue Building is supposed to be converted in residential units by the end of 2024 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Avenue_Building).

The Book Tower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_Tower) is nearing completion with a host of residential units in its main tower.

Griswold Street, a major avenue in Detroit that cuts through our financial district has converted so many old office buildings into residential units that I have lost count.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#85

Post by sokoloff »

courgette wrote: post #80
avalys wrote: post #53

These conversations are kind of like the airplane on the treadmill problem, where there are (approximately) two orthogonal sets of assumptions/preferences that lead to obvious but incompatible conclusions, and people end up yelling at each other over the conclusions without realizing the difference is just the underlying assumptions. Personally - I don't want to live in a city, or a town, or even a neighborhood. I do…

I don't find suburbs boring. I find them soul-less. I grew up in rural France. Small village have shops, bars, services like post-office, hair-dresser and whatnot. It's not a dichotomy between things and absence of things. Suburbs would be fine in my own personal book if they were offering basic services and a sense of comunauty.( not in warehouse operated by large chain, but by people living there and earning a live…

People have different preferences, so it's unsurprising that what you want and what others want will sometimes be different. I'm perfectly happy to, even prefer to, interact with strangers on a daily basis when I'm out doing things. When I come back home though, I want to be able to shut all that (literal and figurative) noise out and just be with my family or invited guests.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#86

Post by nemo44x »

Swizec wrote: post #48
danielrpa wrote: post #18

Cities exist to serve people's needs. The 2 existing models are a relic of a low technology past: suburbia with long car commutes to downtown, and dense cities built around facilitating mass daily movement to the office through subway/public transportation. Instead, we need self-sufficient neighborhoods catering to different lifestyles and needs (some higher density and walkable, others still car-centric but encourag…

> The 2 existing models are a relic of a low technology past: suburbia with long car commutes to downtown, and dense cities built around facilitating mass daily movement to the office through subway/public transportation I’ve been traveling Europe this month and visited several towns and cities both large and small. From tiny villages of a few hundred to 4,000,000+ people monsters. One thing that struck me as vastly…

If you travel or stay long enough you'll find there's plenty of bedroom communities in Europe - you just didn't go to them because why would a tourist go to them? The typical layout is town->multi-family housing surrounding the town that is walkable->larger housing (mix of multi/attached and detached ) that is not walkable. Older parts of the USA (pre-war) are very similar in that there's lots of mixed zoned areas where people live among the shops and services local to them.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#87

Post by cryptonector »

courgette wrote: post #74
synu wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you referring to where there are only two city types? I live in the Netherlands, neither of the two existing models you describe sound familiar in any countries around here, although our cities were certainly designed in a low tech past.

Thanks for remembering about most of humanity.

It's all local. u/danielrpa was referring to local conditions, and so was u/synu.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#88

Post by PuppyTailWags »

sokoloff wrote: post #85
courgette wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find suburbs boring. I find them soul-less. I grew up in rural France. Small village have shops, bars, services like post-office, hair-dresser and whatnot. It's not a dichotomy between things and absence of things. Suburbs would be fine in my own personal book if they were offering basic services and a sense of comunauty.( not in warehouse operated by large chain, but by people living there and earning a live…

People have different preferences, so it's unsurprising that what you want and what others want will sometimes be different. I'm perfectly happy to, even prefer to, interact with strangers on a daily basis when I'm out doing things. When I come back home though, I want to be able to shut all that (literal and figurative) noise out and just be with my family or invited guests.

That's not inherent to rural/urban, that's just good soundproofing. A badly soundproofed house won't help anymore with a neighbor's shitty leafblower than a badly soundproofed apartment will help with a car's backfire in the street.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#89

Post by sokoloff »

escapedmoose wrote: post #58
yieldcrv wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love more concentrated neighborhoods like I’ve seen in many places across Europe many other places across Europe dont have this or most people arent conveniently located but my point is that this doesn't seem to be an option at all in the US, unless you are in a nice development within one or two cities. not an option in the suburbs anywhere to my knowledge.

I managed to find a suburban area with restaurants, groceries, and shops within walking distance in the US and it is an amazing, life-changing thing. I am never ever ever ever ever leaving. US zoning laws need to change.

Under the existing framework of zoning, you were able to find a place that well met your preferences and you never ever*4 plan to leave. From that place of extreme contentment, you conclude that zoning laws in other places need to change (emphasis yours). Interesting.

Re: Remote work’s toll on cities

#90

Post by dougmwne »

Boo hoo.

US cities are abysmal. Chronic underfunding of public transit and bad zoning policies that make it illegal to build dense means that we have some of the most unlivable and exclusive cities in the developed world.

People are speaking with their actions. No one wants to deal with commuting downtown anymore. The expense, the time, the stress, just to further line the pockets of a small number of already incredibly rich rent seekers.

Forget it, I am done and 100 more submarine articles will not get me back.

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