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Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

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Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#61

Post by troels »

ninjac0der wrote: post #3
wycats wrote: post #2

It's worth noting that Obama, upon signing, issued a signing statement that said that he was against the indefinite detention provision, and importantly, that he would not indefinitely hold Americans without trial: "Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most import…

How exactly is that note worthy?

I can't make out if you mean noteworthy or note worthy?

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#62

Post by chc »

This article is just a complete non sequitur. The Stallman angle has nothing to do with any of the problems it cites. Free software wouldn't prevent Obama from signing an indefinite detention bill, it won't stop the government from forcing ISPs and DNS roots to do harmful things — the benefits of free software are completely different things.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#63

Post by jonhendry »

shadowfiend wrote: post #50
jonhendry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He still should have vetoed it. Once Congress knew he was willing to go that far, Congress would have been up against the wall and had to drop it in order for the paychecks to continue.

It's extremely likely, given the criticality of the legislation to the military, that his veto would have been overridden by Congress. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to pick your fights. Then again, I'm extremely angry at him about this, too, so... Yeah, whatever. Heh. Though really I'm angry about the overall civil liberties history of the administration. This is just the proverbial straw.

"It's extremely likely, given the criticality of the legislation to the military, that his veto would have been overridden by Congress. "

Maybe. Or they could drop the problematic bit and redo it. Either way, the paychecks would go out.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#64

Post by rcthompson »

morpher wrote: post #57

In Sec. 1021 (the one about indefinite detention power), it clearly states: (e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States. So, how does this give the president the supposed power to detain US citizen…

Because the president says so. Seems to be the justification for a lot of things.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#65

Post by lightyrs »

scott_w wrote: post #44
CPlatypus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Obama administration requested the indefinite detention provisions." [citation needed]

3rd Paragraph http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/jan/... Skip to about 0:25 where the fun stuff starts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHaJrnlqCgo

Thanks scott_w.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#66

Post by greenyoda »

scott_w wrote: post #44
CPlatypus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Obama administration requested the indefinite detention provisions." [citation needed]

3rd Paragraph http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/jan/... Skip to about 0:25 where the fun stuff starts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHaJrnlqCgo

The clip at 0:25 he's referring to is Senator Carl Levin (Democrat from Michigan and Chairman of the Armed Services Committee) speaking in front of the Senate, as broadcast by C-SPAN. So it seems to be quite credible.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#67

Post by marquis »

chc wrote: post #62

This article is just a complete non sequitur. The Stallman angle has nothing to do with any of the problems it cites. Free software wouldn't prevent Obama from signing an indefinite detention bill, it won't stop the government from forcing ISPs and DNS roots to do harmful things — the benefits of free software are completely different things.

One example: the free software movement should lead to a better DNS system where governments and corporations will have no control over how and where we access information online. I continue to support the EFF and groups like it in order to have funds directed into research on critical issues like this. Would you prefer a GPL DNS or proprietary?

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#68

Post by burgerbrain »

chc wrote: post #62

This article is just a complete non sequitur. The Stallman angle has nothing to do with any of the problems it cites. Free software wouldn't prevent Obama from signing an indefinite detention bill, it won't stop the government from forcing ISPs and DNS roots to do harmful things — the benefits of free software are completely different things.

Stallman has been talking about and focusing about a hell of a lot more than just free software for a long time.

Check out the short story, "The Right To Read" by Stallman. People used to think these sorts of warnings were crazy... now they are practically reality.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#69

Post by stfu »

OstiaAntica wrote: post #5
wycats wrote: post #2

It's worth noting that Obama, upon signing, issued a signing statement that said that he was against the indefinite detention provision, and importantly, that he would not indefinitely hold Americans without trial: "Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most import…

Obama the candidate opposed the use of signing statements. http://technorati.com/politics/article/signing-statements-re...

The signing is pure politics. He has to pick his battles and by making a point on civil liberties and playing up to the libertarian crowd he is not going to win a vote. He is more likely going to "make a point" on social issues aka health care, welfare and so on - things that play well with his electorate.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#70

Post by pingswept »

morpher wrote: post #57

In Sec. 1021 (the one about indefinite detention power), it clearly states: (e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States. So, how does this give the president the supposed power to detain US citizen…

If this applies as you say, what's the purpose of Obama's signing statement? It seems like it would be unnecessary.

(You're right that this is in the bill, as I just verified here: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr1540enr/pdf/BILLS-11...)

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