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Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

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Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

#1

Post by greggarious »

I'm a hacker -- I'm not the best... mostly a phreak turned script kiddie fluent in bash and python, and the "vulnerabilties" I find tend to be web application vulns, not hunks of C that smash the stack. I also have a background in policy, and UX research -- I acquired these skills after leaving Washington DC when Trump took power.

I was born in Pittsburgh, and after extensive interviewing (including at RAND and CERT), I'm seriously considering emigration.

If you had the above experience, where would you go?

I'm eligible for an Italian passport "jus sanguias"[1].

So far, the only places that have made serious overtures are North Korea and Israel, but I suspect I wouldn't be a cultural fit -- both have legal cannabis, but I like to eat so NK isn't a fit, and I'm a lifelong Palestinian rights advocate and uh... not Jewish... so they're off the table despite having a lot of their folks into crypto as in cryptography.

I'd joked before COVID I wanted to be a digital nomad and take the train from Moscow to Bejing, but not really inclined to give either tourism dollars and glorious cyberpunk Hong Kong isn't doing so great either so uhh... suggestions?

Where would you go if you woke up one morning and felt like your US Passport was worthless?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law#Attribution_of_citizenship_through_jus_sanguinis

Re: Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

#2

Post by realAzazello »

Why do I feel this is a setup?? Still...Alright, I'll be the first to bite....

You're talking emigration, not just 'nomading'--which is that grey area of having a tourist visa but working remotely, thus technically you're not working illegally within that country.

Since most countries are very strict about emigration, yes even EU ones, your best bet is to go for that Italian citizenship which if gained will grant you EU citizenship, and thus the right to free movement of working in the EU. From that, you can leverage working elsewhere in the world.

Fun fact: got a friend who has the same benefit as you--he got IT citizenship thanks to both his parents, now lives & works in Milano in cybersecurity.

> felt like your US Passport was worthless

Don't say that. Don't even joke about that. You must have no oversea-living experience: a US passport will never be worthless - It's priceless--it's the best insurance you'll ever own - no, that you have a Right to - when traveling & working overseas. It'll allow access to more countries than any other passport; it'll help more than hurt your chances for employment in many countries; it'll provide you diplomatic services that most other countries have never and will never provide their citizens; and when the worse happens, it'll allow the US embassy staff to get your ass out of a country (yes, brooking the local rules of law) before you get thrown into its prisons -- even if YOU are the one at fault. If the 'worser' happens, it could be a literal 'get out of jail Free card' for you, depending on the diplomatic relations between the US and that country.

Re: Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

#4

Post by 082349872349872 »

realAzazello wrote: post #2

Why do I feel this is a setup?? Still...Alright, I'll be the first to bite.... You're talking emigration, not just 'nomading'--which is that grey area of having a tourist visa but working remotely, thus technically you're not working illegally within that country. Since most countries are very strict about emigration, yes even EU ones, your best bet is to go for that Italian citizenship which if gained will grant you…

> allow access to more countries than any other passport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henley_Passport_Index differs: looks like an IT passport currently beats a US (albeit not significantly) for visa-free travel.

Re: Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

#6

Post by BigRedDog1669 »

realAzazello wrote: post #2

Why do I feel this is a setup?? Still...Alright, I'll be the first to bite.... You're talking emigration, not just 'nomading'--which is that grey area of having a tourist visa but working remotely, thus technically you're not working illegally within that country. Since most countries are very strict about emigration, yes even EU ones, your best bet is to go for that Italian citizenship which if gained will grant you…

I think you overestimate the diplomatic services the US would provide if you weren't involved in a situation that was on the news.

Re: Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

#7

Post by greggarious »

realAzazello wrote: post #2

Why do I feel this is a setup?? Still...Alright, I'll be the first to bite.... You're talking emigration, not just 'nomading'--which is that grey area of having a tourist visa but working remotely, thus technically you're not working illegally within that country. Since most countries are very strict about emigration, yes even EU ones, your best bet is to go for that Italian citizenship which if gained will grant you…

I said nothing about working. I will save up enough money to live for a while without working, and see if I make local contacts, get married.

Also "emigration" could mean one of the options with an EU passport, not just hanging around coffeeshops doing non-income generating projects and hoping to meet a partner or paying for a student visa to study a country's native language, which is cheaper than you'd expect in many non EU countries. (Like a typical American, I only speak English, though I know enough German and Spanish to navigate public transit()

>Don't say that. Don't even joke about that. You must have no oversea-living experience

I've presented scientific research on three continents.

> If the 'worser' happens, it could be a literal 'get out of jail Free card' for you, depending on the diplomatic relations between the US and that country.

I know what the State Department is, Sean "vilerat" Smith is one of the folks who tried to recruit me into the Central Intelligence agency, and I had a "get out of jail free card" in grad school -- they told me as long as the FBI doesn't kick in my adviser's door, I can do whatever I want in the state of Indiana.

(Except, apparently, drop out with a master's and work a job that pays a fair wage for my skills and abilities, but I learned a lot in Bloomington.)

Maybe your friend in Milano and I can connect? I know a lot about cybersecurity, but since I was an altar server and raised Catholic, and thus do not believe in murder, I have issues in America.

(The pope famously said you must go to confession if you volunteer to kill someone in Iraq, a war started when I was a minor, and I told many people in my hometown I will not work for an organization that builds robots to kill brown people at a dinner where they stood around joking that maybe Han's Reiser's wife deserved it -- which was dark as hell since they'd printed a placard for him but he obviously could not attend. Combine those views with the issues you have in Appalachia if you're an exCatholic Me-Too advocate, and you'll begin to understand why I am writing, in increasing detail, why I feel unwelcome in my country of birth.)

Re: Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

#8

Post by greggarious »

082349872349872 wrote: post #3

Val d'Aosta? Bolzano? Trieste? Viareggio? Campione d'Italia? As far as non-italian destinations go, what languages do you speak?

I'd take an Italian course if I became Italian and intended to stay in Italy permanently, I only speak English and a little bit of Spanish/German -- more enough to get a bus ticket or meal or avoid a bar fight in the latter two.

But I don't actually have any connection to Italy -- my family on one side is from Poland, another side from Italy, but that was many generations ago. I am an American, I speak American English -- with a thick Pittsburgh accent that gets more intense when I get passionate about something.

An international student I knew years back I reconnected with recently told me she thinks I sound like Aldo Raines in Inglorious Basterds when I get angry or passionate, if that paints a picture :-)

https://youtu.be/to420F_5YaI?t=75

I feel bad about it being an Italian passport, since I'd probably end up taking Dutch and moving someplace like Rotterdam or Amsterdam (really enjoyed NL), rather than Rome or Milano, places I have never been and seem to hve the same issues Appalachia does: riddled with right wing extremists.

(Apparently if you save up some $ you can get a longer visa if studying a language, but if the whole reason for leaving is lack of ability to ply one's trade, it becomes a bit of a catch 22)

Re: Ask HN: Where Would You Emigrate To?

#10

Post by greggarious »

BigRedDog1669 wrote: post #6
realAzazello wrote: post #2

Why do I feel this is a setup?? Still...Alright, I'll be the first to bite.... You're talking emigration, not just 'nomading'--which is that grey area of having a tourist visa but working remotely, thus technically you're not working illegally within that country. Since most countries are very strict about emigration, yes even EU ones, your best bet is to go for that Italian citizenship which if gained will grant you…

I think you overestimate the diplomatic services the US would provide if you weren't involved in a situation that was on the news.

they will give you a loan to pay back for the plane ticket home if you can get out.

(and if you do something dumb like steal a poster in north korea, they'll negotiate for your body, but unless you fuck up in an extreme enough way to make the news, you will rot in a foreign prison because you are subject to their laws)

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