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Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

stevenbuccini.com

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#381

Post by Fr3dd1 »

tnel77 wrote: post #368
JackFr wrote: post #251

I was laid off in April 2020 as well, and while some of my experience matches the author's some of it was very different. Being laid off was not a relief -- it was terrifying. All indications were that a severe recession was coming. Frankly, it was quite surprising to me that companies were hiring at all given the uncertainty. It was not obvious at the time that broad sectors of the economy could seamlessly move to 1…

I have a bit to go before I’m a software engineer over fifty, but I have a lot of anxiety about it primarily from an ageism standpoint. I don’t really want to go into management because I love coding and solving problems, but I fear that one day I’ll will struggle to find work due to my age. What has your experience been with this issue?

I myself lead a software development team. I am 31 and the last two people I hired were almost 50 and they are very good devs. In my opinion age alone isnt a reason not to hire someone. What is the "common reason" older people are not considered to be hired? I guess because people think they cant adapt or are stuck in some ways in theire thinking. If your future you can show that this is not the case, I guess you are fine :) Only "REAL" age related reason is (and I have to admit that I myself didnt hire someone because of that) if the person wants to retire in the near future and you think you want to invest your time in someone who will, hopefully, stay longer.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#382

Post by JackFr »

tnel77 wrote: post #368
JackFr wrote: post #251

I was laid off in April 2020 as well, and while some of my experience matches the author's some of it was very different. Being laid off was not a relief -- it was terrifying. All indications were that a severe recession was coming. Frankly, it was quite surprising to me that companies were hiring at all given the uncertainty. It was not obvious at the time that broad sectors of the economy could seamlessly move to 1…

I have a bit to go before I’m a software engineer over fifty, but I have a lot of anxiety about it primarily from an ageism standpoint. I don’t really want to go into management because I love coding and solving problems, but I fear that one day I’ll will struggle to find work due to my age. What has your experience been with this issue?

I worry about it too. What I have found is that it's important to keep your skills very, very current. It's OK to be reasonably skeptical about the latest hotness, but it's imperative to know about it and why it's the latest hotness. No one cares (OK very few people care) about the systems you built in perl in the 90's. They will care about your opinion Go vs. Rust vs. C++, even if you are not an expert in any of them. You needn't have used every no-SQL data store, but again you need to know about them.

On the other hand if you are a subject matter expert in a particular domain, then your twenty years of experience are indeed very useful, and while no one wants to replicate the risk reporting system you built in Motif/X in the 90's, they may well want build it in React.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#383

Post by iLoveOncall »

scarface74 wrote: post #236
iLoveOncall wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a long story to hide the fact that by refusing to do LeetCode interviews you were not offered a software engineering position. You most likely are an SA, which is a position open even to business degree holders and is barely technical, no wonder you didn't have to LeetCode.

You mean not being “offered” a position I didn’t want? I have never had any desire to be a software developer at a large company. I like being able to: - be on pre-sales calls with customers - writing the proposals/statements of work - deal with the decision makers from the customers side - architect the entire solution from the development side and the infrastructure/“dev ops side” - do the actual work - lead the us…

I don't care that you have software engineering experience, you are answering to a thread talking about leetcode interviews by saying you didn't have to leetcode because you took a non-software engineering job. Good for you, but nobody cares.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#384

Post by anon50118810 »

doix wrote: post #353
anon50118810 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, remote only if at all possible. I'm surprised that non-tech companies care about looking busy, since tech is a cost center for them and I would guess they're hiring grudgingly at best. I've looked mainly on LinkedIn and some smaller job boards, not Monster or Indeed or Dice or any of those. Another thing is that I'm avoiding complex applications, the ones where you're immediately asked to create an account and o…

> Are the jobs you're talking about often gated behind these applications? Most likely, you'll start to recognize the different software companies use to track job applications. My only experience was helping someone out when they got laid off. They had a mortgage to pay, a new born and a wife that quit her job to look after the new born. Being picky about job application software wasn't a the top of our list. I thin…

You can judge for yourself whether I'm serious or desperate or not. If your standard is 500 applications within a few days, then no. I can't even comprehend that. Are we talking like 10-15 applications per hour?

I don't care about the software as such, but so far I'm not desperate enough to provide detailed information about every job I've had since I was a teenager, every reference up front, agree to legal statements, or whatever else they might insist on, knowing I could be fired later on if I get any of it wrong, just to maybe get the first 30 minute phone call from a recruiter. On top of this is the simple logic that any employer that puts up all these barriers is probably not really interested in hiring anyway. More work for less reward, so that my time would be better spent looking for more likely positions.

That said I'm willing to have my mind changed on this. Maybe all of these jobs are actually super eager to hire despite being so hostile to applicants.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#385

Post by kelnos »

jacquesm wrote: post #44
jayceedenton wrote: post #28

> Hard Truth #6: Honesty can only hurt you I think the author has come away with the wrong lesson here. Many engineers, particularly those that don't pay too much heed to social mores, think they have some God-given right to share details of all their private interactions publicly. Every tech test they do is pushed to GitHub with an accompanying blog post. Every interview has a transcript (somewhat one-sided) publish…

If a company asks you about stuff that isn't any of their business you have my permission (not that you need it) to lie your ass off if you think it will help you. The power asymmetry is such that unless the counterparty is extremely careful about abusing that power that you will end up being cornered and taken advantage of. If you present yourself as more desirable than you are based on your current situation and it…

Lying is always risky, though. If the truth comes to light, you are screwed. Even if it doesn't, you have to remember and internalize your lie, and make sure anything you say in the future is consistent with it. That requires extra work and can be stressful. (And if you mess it up: again, you are screwed.)

I don't buy the "you don't want to work for a company that would ask you XYZ anyway" line. Sure, in some cases that may be true, but sometimes someone (that is, a random person on the interview loop, not a "professional interviewer" like a recruiter) will ask or say something they shouldn't, and that doesn't need to reflect poorly on the company (or even on the person; who hasn't said something dumb on occasion?).

If you think a question is inappropriate, politely decline to answer, using whatever verbal finesse you have available to yourself. It takes practice and confidence to do so, but it's the right thing to do.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#386

Post by TeMPOraL »

sbuccini wrote: post #54
mgkimsal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I'll take a guess that it makes the OP look like a troublemaker. Someone who has the nerve/gall/gumption to be so open as to name/shame other companies may not pull any punches when it comes to naming 'company X' in the future after something bad goes down. Posting "here's a list of companies that haven't got back to me" (which is possibly implicit in an open spreadsheet sort of post) is likely perceived…

The connotations I had in mind (although I obviously cannot be sure what the recruiter thought): - what mgkimsal said - "This employee is applying to really big companies. I'm not sure they know what they are really looking for. This is a mission-driven company, and we want people who want to be here" - "This person has applied to 30+ places and hasn't landed a job yet? Must not be that great after all" - "Someone wh…

I'd also add:

- "Oh someone here is treating our company as if it was a commodity. I don't like them."

- "This person is trying to game interviewing, probably best to steer clear."

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#387

Post by gorbachev »

The number one thing I've learned from being laid off was never to trust your employer. Trust people, if they've shown to be trustworthy, but never, ever trust a company.

A company is not family, they're not your friend, and the perceived loyalty you think you've "earned" doesn't mean a thing if layoffs are coming.

Treat your employment as a business arrangement. You get a paycheck in exchange for labor. Nothing less, nothing more.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#388

Post by nijave »

0xmarcin wrote: post #330
pronlover723 wrote: post #11

#1 it's lonely? April 2020, 1 month into the pandemic. I found the pandemic lonely. I saw less than 1 person a month for the first 14 months of the pandemic. And i find WFH incredibly lonely. I haven't recovered. I'm utterly alone most weeks. I see no one. Even if I go to work, no one is there. I moved cities a year ago and have only 1 friend and 2 acquaintances in the new city. 2 of those 3 are married and I see the…

Loneliness is bad in itself, but it can get worse if you are: - Not going outside every day - Not keeping yourself fit - Eating junk food In my region there is a lot of office only/mostly hybrid (3+ days in the office) jobs, probably for the reason that you mention. Of course when I ask why I need to be in the office people tell me about culture and stuff... But the true reason is probably more along the lines: lonel…

Also

- Not exercising

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#389

Post by swang720 »

xyzelement wrote: post #75

This is good, and/but is one dimension. A few from me: - Have perspective. Several years down the line when you're in a new company/career/life, you will recognize this layoff was a necessary thing to happen for you to "get there." - It's going to take a while. Every job I ever got, took waaaay longer than it should have. Things happen. Roles get filled internally, headcount goes away, etc. Job finding is inherently…

Speaking from personal experience the "there's no stigma in layoffs" bit is not always true. Many places have asked me why I was laid off upfront with an assumption that it was due to performance reasons unless I'm able to prove otherwise.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#390

Post by gorbachev »

the_af wrote: post #345
anticristi wrote: post #336

I would love to read a European, perhaps Swedish version of this article. 12+ months of unemployment insurance is standard here. I guess it doesn't take the loneliness away, but might make unemployment less traumatic.

I really liked the article, one of the few on this subject that doesn't feel like self-help or a humble brag. So kudos to the author. That said, like you, I wonder if this is an American thing. It feels to me as if many Americans are one job away from total collapse, like their country is only ok for people with a good employment and an utter nightmare for everyone else, with no safety net at all except your own savi…

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/19/56percent-of-americans-cant-...
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