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Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

stevenbuccini.com

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#291
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what happened to me when I quit. “Now I’ll have time for my projects!!” Instead it’s been “Grokking Algorithms”, “The Competitive Programmers Handbook”, Alex Xu’s “System Design”, and enough leetcode that I’m actually doing more than I did at work. What sucks is that there are still lots of medium problems I cannot do. Hards are right out. Dunno what I’ll do.

What situation are people in that they have to result to this? Is this an issue with getting laid off and trying to find a FAANG job? I was laid off from one consulting company back in 2018 or so and had a new gig with more pay a week or so later. No leetcode or dev tests, just talking with people in phone interviews. It was a company I had previously done contract work for, and they called me, but nothing at the FAA…

> What situation are people in that they have to result to this? Is this an issue with getting laid off and trying to find a FAANG job?

It's reflective of the type of company you're interviewing for.

I lived in Seattle for a while, and almost every startup in the area did some form of algorithm lottery interviewing, because the startups were created by ex AMZN/MS/etc employees and they just took the process they were comfortable with to the next company.

I lived in Atlanta and a few other smaller cities for a while before and after that, and no company did anything like this, because the successful tech companies were all born of people with no FAANG experience, with different backgrounds and with different experiences.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a live-to-work attitude. Have some other hobbies and goals, and a year of unemployment will be neither lonely nor depressing. Personally I've gone farther in the work-to-live direction, with an easygoing, "boring" (still fulfilling enough to see some javascript doodad come to life, but not world changing) WFH job I perform well in that supports my homesteading and other hobbies.

Or its "if you enjoy what you do you will never work" attidude I have met soo many sysadmins and devs that absolutely hate computers, hate programming, hate everything about IT. They were in some career fair at some point in high school and simply picked that because it had high pay with out the 6 or 8 years being a Doctor or lawyer took, and it seemed easier than Electrical Engineering or something. Me, I have alway…

> I have met soo many sysadmins and devs that absolutely hate computers, hate programming, hate everything about IT

> Me, I have always loved programming and computers. They are both my work and my hobby

I think you're being too harsh, and clearly, you've never experienced burnout, which will make you loathe programming as work and as a hobby. Unless you are self employed, it is possible to hate your programming job while enjoying coding at home, without being in it for the money.

"If you enjoy what you do you will never work" is such bs, and leads to exploitation (see AAA games' low pay and crunching, or underpaid airline pilots)

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#293

Stepping back for a moment from the content, I think it is worth noting what an exceptionally well-written essay this is. Being able to write well is a super power for engineers. It is a reflection of the lucidity and clarity of one's mind, and the ability to understand the needs of the reader. Writing well is an exceptionally useful and powerful skill that can be improved with consistent practice. I would be tempted…

Verbal and math ability are highly correlated, as suggested by IQ and SAT scores. People who are good at math tend to be above average at writing too.

It took me many years to figure out how to write. Finally, I figured out how to apply that math side of my brain to writing: I treat sentences like math exercises; that is to say I learned how to show my work.

Ironically, I feel that this also helps me identify AI writing since it never shows its work; it has a tendency to mix together multiple "answers" in a swirling morass of leadership-speak (a mixture of management-adjective-soup and the avoidance of direct points). That kind of speech pattern coming from anybody that's not a C level executive stands out. Even executives tend to drop the leadership style speech patterns on forums.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#294

Stepping back for a moment from the content, I think it is worth noting what an exceptionally well-written essay this is. Being able to write well is a super power for engineers. It is a reflection of the lucidity and clarity of one's mind, and the ability to understand the needs of the reader. Writing well is an exceptionally useful and powerful skill that can be improved with consistent practice. I would be tempted…

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#295
post #74

My advice: Have one or more side projects going all the time. If you get laid off, immediately start doing a startup, open-source project, or volunteering full time. A year of unemployment? Lonely, depressing, and not good on a resume. A year of launching an unsuccessful venture? Running coding classes for the underserved? Focusing full-time on contributing to pytorch? That's a lot better, both at the time and in ret…

Did you get a job this way? Do you know anyone who got a job this way?

Almost every single job I've ever gotten is because of a side project or because I incorporated a small company to legitamise a side-project I was hacking on.

Over the years:

I built a video capture system for the Commodore Amiga as a neat side project for that lead to me working on Transputers that formed the heart of a non-linear editing system (no interview)

The Transputers were really fast, so I wrote some neat 3D demos that ran on the Transputer boards in the Amiga & PC => contract work with SGI (no interview)

Wrote a demo for the SGI video capture system to scan a magazine at high resolution => machine vision & robotics that was changing the printing industry (no interview)

Wrote a C compiler for an 8-bit micro so I could learn C => leads to writing a C compiler for a 16-bit micro at a company (no interview)

Created a "smart home dashboard" for a side-project => leads to writing a mobile app to manage a WiFi router => leads to becoming Lead Firmware Engineer on the project (no interview)

I wrote some stuff on the Unity3D forums => game development job offer (no interview)

Ran a number of in-person developer meet-ups over the years => various jobs & offers & contract gigs (no interview)

Got asked by a friend to teach a class on device driver development at USC, video recorded it, he sent it to his friend at Intel => wind up teaching many, many week long, rocket-science level classes on Linux & Android & device driver development & board bring-up at Intel (no interview)

Recorded all of my lectures at Intel, shared them with a friend at Facebook who was trying to get in to device driver development => Which lead to me teaching a couple of classes at Facebook (no interview)

Asked to critique a ReactNative class at Facebook due to my other teaching there => Which lead to me consulting/contracting for Facebook for a few years (no interview)

Video tape my classes at Facebook, which get shared with people at Microsoft & Apple without my knowledge => end up consulting and teaching at both Microsoft & Apple (no interview)

Created a bot for a popular MMORPG coupled with machine vision and some AI techniques => contract job to detect bots in the self-same popular MMORPG (no interview)

I created a C# package and published it that done some fancy stuff with random numbers => company hired me to work on their project that used the library (that was an "interesting" interview)

I wrote some SONY PlayStation developer tools => leads to getting a job at a game development company creating a PSX game (no interview)

Create some tools to theme websites and pull data from a database => accidentally create an adult entertainment empire (no interview)

Document how the Gameboy works, write some developer tools, maintain some developer tools => multiple jobs developing Gameboy games (no interview)

Port MAME to a bunch of consoles, write emulators as side-projects for other consoles => hired to write emulator of their classic consoles for "big console development company" (no interview)

Hacked on some gstreamer code => connection with a guy at a Canadian who says "if you're ever looking to move to Canada..."

There's lot of other examples in my career where building a side-project leads to an interview or a straight-up offer.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#296
post #74

My advice: Have one or more side projects going all the time. If you get laid off, immediately start doing a startup, open-source project, or volunteering full time. A year of unemployment? Lonely, depressing, and not good on a resume. A year of launching an unsuccessful venture? Running coding classes for the underserved? Focusing full-time on contributing to pytorch? That's a lot better, both at the time and in ret…

[deleted]

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#297
post #74

My advice: Have one or more side projects going all the time. If you get laid off, immediately start doing a startup, open-source project, or volunteering full time. A year of unemployment? Lonely, depressing, and not good on a resume. A year of launching an unsuccessful venture? Running coding classes for the underserved? Focusing full-time on contributing to pytorch? That's a lot better, both at the time and in ret…

This is terrible, possibly toxic advice. Software devs are people too. They burn out, take time off to travel, reflect, take care of family, or just down on their luck being unemployed. The only advice I'd consider paramount is to take stock of themselves financially and mentally, to assure themselves that they can take on the chaos and uncertainty that follows. Honestly, if someone showed up with a gap in their resu…

> Honestly, if someone showed up with a gap in their resume and claimed that they were doing start-up, open source, etc. for an interview, I'd dig deep into that hard.

As a counterpoint, I probably wouldn't dig into this too much. But even if I did, would I find it strange that someone got laid off and then used their time to build up a company that didn't work out? Probably not. And if I realized that it was a half-assed effort... so what? Why is that worse than time spent playing video games? Sure, if you told me you were working on building a company and you didn't have any progress, I might feel that you were dishonest. But if you've got at least something to show for it (a basic product, even with zero sales), I think it's fair game.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a live-to-work attitude. Have some other hobbies and goals, and a year of unemployment will be neither lonely nor depressing. Personally I've gone farther in the work-to-live direction, with an easygoing, "boring" (still fulfilling enough to see some javascript doodad come to life, but not world changing) WFH job I perform well in that supports my homesteading and other hobbies.

This late in my career, I've found 5 of my 7 SIEMs are gone, and the last one is on life support. The one I'm managing now will not be around by the time I retire. You start to see the patterns and futility and cycles and think 'maybe my career is not making things better, it's keeping the mortgage paid?' That and while I'm I can get rehired past 50...do I really want to do that dance again?

Same here, past 50 and while my job doesn’t fulfill me, I can do it with little effort and it pays the bills. I’m too tired and lazy to try something new, rather look for fulfillment in my spare time. Actually, all my previous experiences say that every job sucks, no matter how promising it looked like at the start.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#299

Stepping back for a moment from the content, I think it is worth noting what an exceptionally well-written essay this is. Being able to write well is a super power for engineers. It is a reflection of the lucidity and clarity of one's mind, and the ability to understand the needs of the reader. Writing well is an exceptionally useful and powerful skill that can be improved with consistent practice. I would be tempted…

Verbal and math ability are highly correlated, as suggested by IQ and SAT scores. People who are good at math tend to be above average at writing too.

And the author is.. also good at math?

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what happened to me when I quit. “Now I’ll have time for my projects!!” Instead it’s been “Grokking Algorithms”, “The Competitive Programmers Handbook”, Alex Xu’s “System Design”, and enough leetcode that I’m actually doing more than I did at work. What sucks is that there are still lots of medium problems I cannot do. Hards are right out. Dunno what I’ll do.

Not a widely shared opinion here, but this process will make you a better engineer. Keep at it.

You're definitely correct, I've learned a lot while practicing leetcode. Especially about my chosen language (Python). I do feel I'm a better engineer because of it.

I don't think much of what I've learned will be useful in the day-to-day SWE grind. It's really quite interesting, but I cannot recall ever having to remember the skeleton of an iterative DFS before now.

I've taken away more useful lessons from system design studying. If I had my way, I'd spend more timing finishing "Designing Data Intensive Applications" (AWESOME book), instead of figuring out why my oranges aren't rotting correctly or trying to remember how to solve the coin problem using dynamic programming instead of a greedy algo.

On the plus side, once I've got a good memory base and can solve random Mediums and some Hards, I should be OK to pass basically any technical interview - barring random chance. Right now I took a break for xmas and need to go back to it, and that is the hardest part :)

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