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Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#201

Post by Damogran6 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #124
blagie wrote: post #74

My advice: Have one or more side projects going all the time. If you get laid off, immediately start doing a startup, open-source project, or volunteering full time. A year of unemployment? Lonely, depressing, and not good on a resume. A year of launching an unsuccessful venture? Running coding classes for the underserved? Focusing full-time on contributing to pytorch? That's a lot better, both at the time and in ret…

This is a live-to-work attitude. Have some other hobbies and goals, and a year of unemployment will be neither lonely nor depressing. Personally I've gone farther in the work-to-live direction, with an easygoing, "boring" (still fulfilling enough to see some javascript doodad come to life, but not world changing) WFH job I perform well in that supports my homesteading and other hobbies.

This late in my career, I've found 5 of my 7 SIEMs are gone, and the last one is on life support. The one I'm managing now will not be around by the time I retire.

You start to see the patterns and futility and cycles and think 'maybe my career is not making things better, it's keeping the mortgage paid?'

That and while I'm I can get rehired past 50...do I really want to do that dance again?

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#202

Post by rychco »

blagie wrote: post #74

My advice: Have one or more side projects going all the time. If you get laid off, immediately start doing a startup, open-source project, or volunteering full time. A year of unemployment? Lonely, depressing, and not good on a resume. A year of launching an unsuccessful venture? Running coding classes for the underserved? Focusing full-time on contributing to pytorch? That's a lot better, both at the time and in ret…

I see other comments aggressively criticizing this suggestion (& I'm happy to see it) but I think staying busy with something fulfilling outside of your job is generally good advice. It doesn't need to be resume filler. The constant grindset-mindset is toxic, but staying engaged/fulfilled with something can be tremendously beneficial for your mental health & happiness during a period of setbacks & struggle.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#203

Post by criddell »

anon50118810 wrote: post #160
fein wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What situation are people in that they have to result to this? Is this an issue with getting laid off and trying to find a FAANG job? I was laid off from one consulting company back in 2018 or so and had a new gig with more pay a week or so later. No leetcode or dev tests, just talking with people in phone interviews. It was a company I had previously done contract work for, and they called me, but nothing at the FAA…

In very large part what your interviews look like depends heavily on when and where you're searching, what type of job you want and what your background is. It's hard to overstate this. 2018 might as well be an entirely different universe. That said I would be a little suspicious as a mid/senior-level developer if I got hired at a place that didn't ask me to do any coding for them at all beforehand.

I'm sometimes involved in the interviewing process for my employer and we don't do any kind of coding tests. We do ask for them to submit a sample of their work and use it in the interview. I ask questions about the problem and about how they solved it. The code itself isn't usually that interesting, but the tangents we wander down usually are. If the person can't communicate well about a technical topic that they essentially chose, then they probably won't get an offer.

That said, I work for a small company and our turnover is pretty low. I haven't been involved in all that many hires.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#204

Post by okaram »

ctvo wrote: post #187
rjh29 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a decent amount of savings and a side project I want to do which could potentially earn money. Are you saying if I quit my job and do this for a year or so, it'll fill a hole in my resume and not affect future interviews?

Everytime I read these comments I feel like I work in another industry. Who cares about the gaps in your resume? Truly, have recruiters commented in anything but passing? Your interviewers? I've hired candidates with large gaps in their resume and their reasoning for the most part was I wanted time off or I went traveling or N other things that have nothing to do with work. We. Did. Not. Care. Pass the interview. Thi…

It's not so much the (closed) gaps, but the time since last job. The first job after you take a year off will be harder to get. After that, most people won't care.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#205

Post by iLoveOncall »

scarface74 wrote: post #133
itake wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wondering, what is your TC? My understanding is that story works at Tier 3 companies that lack a structured interview process and are desperate for candidates (e.g. startups).

Seeing that I work at the alphabetically sorted first “A” in FAANG, I don’t think it could be considered a “tier 3” company. When a recruiter from Amazon Retail reached out to me about an SDE position, I wasn’t interested in either relocating, working as a software developer at any large company or doing the prerequisite DS&A monkey dance. We kept talking and she suggested that I apply for a fully remote role consult…

That's a long story to hide the fact that by refusing to do LeetCode interviews you were not offered a software engineering position.

You most likely are an SA, which is a position open even to business degree holders and is barely technical, no wonder you didn't have to LeetCode.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#206

Post by p1esk »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #112
ulfw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that argument he could have taken a job at McDonald's flipping burgers and would be better off than 'zero'. He did take a pay cut. 37% can be felt by anyone earning an income. It's often the decider if you have money left over after living expenses or not. Let's say you earn 200K. 100k goes away for taxes et al (I am simplifying here), leaving you 100K for expenses. If your living expenses are 60K for rent, food,…

It was $400k to $250k. Significant, but given the recession, it’s a nice position to be in. There’s a fella on TikTok named Frank Niu. He made $500k at Netflix, and his job was basically to run around fixing things when they broke. It was a nice reminder that the good times can be very good, and the bad times are worth scaling back one’s expectations appropriately. I doubt he’d still be in the $500k bracket if he wer…

But you took the offer within one week from being laid off. You don’t feel like you could’ve gotten a better offer if you waited?

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#207

Post by dadoge »

Contrary opinion:

If feels very very very wrong to compare a search during April 2020 and now.

Why? The year after April 2020 was a booming job market for SWEs. Hiring managers were competing for talent, 2021 was a boom year of low interest rates, euphoria in private and public markets.

This blog post _should not_ be considered a response to the WSJ article.

And sorry, grinding away at leetcode should only take about 2 months tops if you don’t have to worry having to balance leetcode and your job, and not a tall ask for a 250k+ job in tech. if you don’t need that high a salary, smaller companies generally are more lax about leetcode

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#208

Post by [deleted] »

stcroixx wrote: post #140

I was laid off once and didn't find much in common with anything in this article. I had two offers, not interviews, within a day or two of being laid off. Then 2-3 years later, after their outsourcing strategy imploded, they called me offering me that job back - this was the best part. Knowing they were making a mistake from day one and finally confirmation when the Cap Gemini losers were all shown the door. Maybe th…

[deleted]

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#209

Post by kjksf »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #146
cahoot_bird wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter opinion: You're going to be one of many applicant because everyone else is embracing WFH trend too, so you are competing with everyone, especially with some much experience to show, or a portfolio of trending technologies. It might be that a dev that has a money cushion and is willing and able to relocate can compete on a level others can't because competition would only be localized. OP was unemployed a year…

> OP was unemployed a year. Time adds up, that's a lot of money. Luckily my government gives me a full year of unemployment benefits at 2/3rds of my salary besides my savings. Obviously, I don't wish to test my luck regardless, but not everywhere is as cutthroat as the US.

More accurately: your government takes your money and then, maybe, gives it back to you in the form of unemployment benefits and the like, minus significant processing fees.

The alternative is to use the money the government doesn't take and save it for your future "unemployment benefit".

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#210

Post by anon50118810 »

bumby wrote: post #84
anon50118810 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being spoiled for choice with offers is great if you can manage it, but not very useful if you're OP who couldn't find something for a year. Also, having a job gives you a basic social identity to use to interact with people, and positive cash flow lets you be expansive and outgoing. It's very easy to take this for granted, or assume focusing on work is ultra-materialist, if you don't have a lot of experience going w…

> a job gives you a basic social identity Just because this is a norm doesn't make it healthy. When your identity is rooted in something that can easily go away, it makes for a weak foundation. Lot of examples of jobs that are relatively short-lived (athletes, military, etc.) can show how difficult transitioning is when your identity is tied to your job.

We need to distinguish between being at some particular job and being in a profession or similarly in any job at all.

I think it's unhealthy to have your identity tied to your specific employer, job title and tasks that you do for them. You as a person should not be defined by the tickets in your current sprint.

However not having a profession or any job is much different and worse. Unless you're older and retired, or independently wealthy, then it means you're going to cut back on everything. You won't socialize with other people society deems successful, you won't date, you won't grow a family, you won't travel or do anything other than continue to exist. All parts of your situation will shrink and decline. You are running out the clock toward total destitution.

I'm making this point because it's easy for people who are having a successful career to say, oh, of course I'm not my job, while missing entirely that they see themselves as a person who has a good job and will likely get another good job if their current job ends. They don't mean that they see themselves equally as a software developer or a dishwasher or on the street and it's all the same to them, so sharing the perspective that you are not your job in a discussion about extended unemployment is maybe not very appropriate.

Whether this latter reality is healthy or not, I don't know, but people have identified themselves as successful based on their trade or other social categorization for thousands of years, so at least we can say it's not new.

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