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Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#131

Post by hulitu »

moonchrome wrote: post #100
eldritch_4ier wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of human cultures across time and space don’t recognize gender in the sense you do. There’s sex, roles, personality, trends, etc but the concept of a man identifying as a woman and vice versa is a very rare one. There are European countries (most recently Switzerland) that outright reject these notions, and they were almost unheard of in the US just a mere decade ago. What seems like basic reality t…

I think you misunderstood me - OP wrote he doesn't have a concept of sex where he comes from. Since that's the biological term it sounded funny to me. I'm sure he meant to say gender.

In the languages i speak gender is used in grammar, sex in biology.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#132

Post by bbbbbp »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #121
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope more people do this because for me it feels really right, and I find it beautiful. It’s also helping me understand women more. I think our society would benefit from a better understanding of the experiences of the opposite sex, and people who do this can help share this with others so we all have a better understanding. I don’t see any downsides to more people doing this.

Apologies for what may be perceived as everybody jumping on you. It’s also helping me understand women more. I disagree. I think you're understanding your own experience more, but then you've trying to fit that to what you see or hear about from women based on a lot of assumptions that probably aren't valid. Since we have no direct access to the internal mental state of others (and scarcely that of ourselves sometime…

[flagged]

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#133

Post by lelanthran »

pessimizer wrote: post #104

Taking sex differences in personality seriously involves taking the reality seriously that women are treated radically differently than men in almost every society on earth, and that radical difference is generally that women are a permanent lower caste, and are victims of violence far more than they are perpetrators of violence. These goofy exercises in the eugenics of common sense and the obvious all require us to…

> and that radical difference is generally that women are a permanent lower caste, and are victims of violence far more than they are perpetrators of violence

Aren't the females of almost every first world demographic objectively better off than males in many metrics?

They experience longer life, less violence, more social services, better education, more bursaries, less injuries at work, higher median income amongst the entire population, lower sentences for crime ... and more?

Are those metrics not important?

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#134

Post by nullsense »

_jab wrote: post #98
cjcyehdusjxyehx wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a real shame that people get so bent out of shape about trans people The issue which people react so allergic to is the complete lack of tolerance by the transgender community. If someone points out that a man who really wants to be a women is in principle still a man then they get instantly labelled a bigot. It completely misrepresents the definition of tolerance. Tolerance can only exist in a state of disagr…

This argument, that it’s the trans community that is intolerant and not those who don’t fully accept trans gender identities as legitimate, is simplistic and in bad faith. The problem is that a lack of genuine acceptance of trans identities (i.e. that trans men are men, and trans women are women) inevitably leads to trans people _not_ being treated the way they want to be treated. The classic examples of these are ba…

>The problem is that a lack of genuine acceptance of trans identities (i.e. that trans men are men, and trans women are women) inevitably leads to trans people _not_ being treated the way they want to be treated.

This is an interesting one.

I definitely find being told I have to accept that "trans women are women" off putting and like the Aesop's fable with the wind and the sun, it feels like the wind blowing and makes me want to hold on to that jacket tighter.

The way I see it, trans women are trans women, and trans men are trans men. They occupy a different category in my mind than either.

I'm trying to imagine how I would feel going to either bathroom as a trans person, and the only answer I can come up with is "riddled with anxiety".

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#135

Post by lelanthran »

_jab wrote: post #98
cjcyehdusjxyehx wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a real shame that people get so bent out of shape about trans people The issue which people react so allergic to is the complete lack of tolerance by the transgender community. If someone points out that a man who really wants to be a women is in principle still a man then they get instantly labelled a bigot. It completely misrepresents the definition of tolerance. Tolerance can only exist in a state of disagr…

This argument, that it’s the trans community that is intolerant and not those who don’t fully accept trans gender identities as legitimate, is simplistic and in bad faith. The problem is that a lack of genuine acceptance of trans identities (i.e. that trans men are men, and trans women are women) inevitably leads to trans people _not_ being treated the way they want to be treated. The classic examples of these are ba…

[flagged]

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#136

Post by cjcyehdusjxyehx »

lapinot wrote: post #117
cjcyehdusjxyehx wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a real shame that people get so bent out of shape about trans people The issue which people react so allergic to is the complete lack of tolerance by the transgender community. If someone points out that a man who really wants to be a women is in principle still a man then they get instantly labelled a bigot. It completely misrepresents the definition of tolerance. Tolerance can only exist in a state of disagr…

> The issue which people react so allergic to is the complete lack of tolerance by the transgender community. Who says so? What has been your personal experience with "the transgender community"? If you're seeing it through the polarized lens of online (specifically big platforms) interaction, then for sure you are seeing it as intolerant. But the same could be said about almost every pov online: most of what we get…

> What has been your personal experience with "the transgender community"?

I am a lesbian woman and in a gay dating app I have been receiving dozens of death threats and I was even banned after I got reported by a group of people because I put this sentence in those exact words in my profile:

“I support LGBTQ+ rights and I am a proud member of this wonderfully vibrant community. I welcome all transgender people and count many as my friends. However, without causing anyone upset I would like to state that I am only interested in dating female bodied women and I would kindly ask everyone to respect my sexual preferences.”

I’ve been a lesbian for 39 years and I never felt this hated and attacked by any other group of people. I am not saying that transgender people attack me, but it’s transgender activists (often men who identify as men) who say the most vile and nasty things to me because of my sexual preference which I tried to express in the most respectful way.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#137

Post by monlockandkey »

alangibson wrote: post #94
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #79

It’s truly shocking but it turns out our eyes aren’t lying and reality is true.

Our eyes lie all the time and experience is wide open to interpretation. That's why we have science so we can objectively and progressively determine what is true and what is not. Relying on our gut like our ancestors, who for example believed in the obvious reality of witches, is the best way to be ignorant of what is really true.

Science is a tool to explain mechanisms of the natural of world. It can NOT be used to find the truth about objective morality.

For example I can point you the the hordes of research papers done on the effects of alcohol. The source of cancers, 40-50% of violent crimes are done under the influence of alcohol, predisposition to evils such as gambling, assualts, SA, domestic abuse, drink driving, effects on mental and physical health and much much more. Truly an endless well of evil that stems from this substance. It has been explicitly verified with the scientific method that it carries significant harms that outweigh any so called benifits.

Yet I can guarantee almost all people who assert science as the only way to truth and morality, promote alchol consumption despite the very clear studies backed by research on the depravity of alcohol with regards to the individual and society.

So as much as science can say something is bad, the people who say science is the only way to truth need to be consistent and onboard its conclusions rather than picking and choosing moral boundaries when convenient.

Science is definetly not the only tool for validating reality.

Testimony is an integral part of all of our lives for ascertaining truth. We know that the country of Japan exists because we have maps and images of the place and geography teachers have testified that "this is Japan". It you really think about it, most of your entire life for knowing the truth is testimony. How many times do people pull out their microscope and scientific instruments to verify the world around them using the scientific method? We can even take a step further to say that we use testimony of scientists through their research papers to gain truth and understanding of a matter without having to peer review their papers.

Essentially we can assign high probability something is the truth with testimonials of individuals.

In regards to our ancestors it would be incredible to be dismissive of their experience and testimonies regarding the "supernatural". How is it possible that civilization all across the globe without contact have some sort of ghosts, spirits, demons, Jinns in their world view. Why do we discard their testimony instead on saying what is the probability that civilization without contact all have belief in a super natural entities?

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#138

Post by rajin444 »

ruszki wrote: post #122
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many people claim there is no inherent difference in men and women above the neck, and that any observed difference is purely culturally caused. By extension, it could be eliminated in a single generated given total control of the socialisation and schooling process. This is not a meme or a rare view - Steven Pinker wrote a book countering this worldview 20 years ago.

I thought that I should have made a note about this in my comment, but I didn’t because the author declares that the article isn’t about the cause of these differences, or whether these are inherent differences. That’s why it’s strange for me. I think the discussion is about the inherent nature of these, and not whether these exist.

Western society has made a huge push for more women in specific industries. The impetus being discrimination against women has resulted in them being under represented.

The only way the above is logical is if there are no inherent differences between men and women. Otherwise, we have no way of determining how much disparity is from inherent factors and how much is from environmental. Put another way: if you believe female (or any race) under representation is caused by discrimination you should be able to define the correct level of representation if there was no discrimination (I have yet to see this number defined in any instance, which is concerning because there’s no way to measure impact or progress).

Given that we’re broadly implementing much policies is strong evidence that many believe there are no inherent differences.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#139

Post by thesid »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #4

In the past 12 months I’ve gone from having normal male levels of testosterone and estrogen to having normal female levels of both. It’s truly amazing and wonderful that we can do this, and I’ve learned so much from the experience. It’s hard to describe the changes precisely, but I’m finding that women make more sense to me and are more interesting to talk to, while I have a lower tolerance for men trying to act toug…

This entire things feels like you are justifying your transition process with some feelgood facts which you intentionally made up.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#140

Post by thesid »

lapinot wrote: post #127
MauranKilom wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trans people want to use the bathrooms and compete on athletics teams corresponding to their identity. I know I'm not the first person ever one to bring this up, but it's unclear to me how letting someone with (largely) the physique of a man compete against women is acceptable. There's a reason why (competitive) sports are usually divided by male/female, and that reason still overall holds for someone who is trans.…

> There's a reason why (competitive) sports are usually divided by male/female This division is arbitrary. The reason for this is the premise of fair competition that identical people should compete. Yet white males dominate male swimming whereas black males dominate male sprinting. There have been physiological explanations based on center of mass things afaik. Knowing that, why don't we split the competitions accor…

> This division is arbitrary

what the hell, how is Men's and Women's sports categorization arbitrary? its clearly defined who plays in which category.

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