Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s an interpretation because we don’t have any empirical evidence for the other worlds. Science requires evidence, math alone isn’t enough. MWI is metaphysics, which is fine. We all wax philosophical sometimes as humans. Even the great Feynman couldn’t help himself.
> It’s an interpretation because we don’t have any empirical evidence for the other worlds. Science requires evidence, math alone isn’t enough. By that logic assuming that distant parts of the universe still exist is metaphysics (since it would take many years for any information from there to reach us), yet few people feel the need to call it such.
The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
101–110 of 170 posts
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well for some definition of the word “bump”. What I mean is that the mechanism by which sound travels is the same as the mechanism by which I can punch a punching bag and see it swing. Even if the two materials never “come into contact” because it’s actually the result of charges repelling each other or whatever, the way it works in both cases is the same.
Sure, but at that level of generality you're also talking about the mechanism by which light propagates.
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#103Sure, I'd like to read Aaronson and tried. My difficulty with quantum mechanics is much earlier, that is, more elementary and basic than what Aaronson considers. I've watched MIT lectures, looked into books by experts, ..., and I get nothing I can believe in. Right in the first hour, I get questions with no answers. E.g., (1) Wave Function. Okay. I can't find a definition of a wave function. Nothing subtle but just t…
The range is a state vector specific to the system you're modelling. The domain is usually space if you're trying to model a system statically, or space and time if you're trying to model it dynamically. The terminology is certainly sloppy - people say "wavefunction" to mean both "the state as a function of time/space" and "one particular state value".
> Now, what is the evidence that it actually IS the probability density of the particle? That is, so far I can't find any argument, justification, reason to conclude that the probability density of the particle is not something else. E.g., the probability density of the particle might be Gaussian.
Sure. A priori there's no reason to assume that any of this corresponds to anything physically real. The point is that if you construct these particular mathematical functions, they turn out to correspond to our observations, and furthermore every system we've been able to measure (except perhaps where gravity is involved) has a description in these terms.
> Well, the wave functions have to be differentiable and, thus, continuous, and it's easy enough to have a sequence of such functions converge to a discontinuous and, thus, not differentiable function and not a wave function.
Can you actually construct this though? Not every differentiable function is a valid wavefunction.
> Now, is h actually also a wave function? Its absolute value might not integrate to 1. Okay, scale it so that we do get 1. Now what particle has wave function h? That is, what physics does this linear combination describe? What does h in
> h = af + bg
> have to do with physics? E.g., from the Pauli exclusion principle, maybe h can't correspond to anything in physics. What is going on with superposition?
No, that can't be true - any such h is necessarily a valid state of the system. The Pauli exclusion principle comes out of a case where the amplitude is 0. This is a central part of the theory - if you found a system where h was physically impossible, that would disprove quantum mechanics.
> Can't Know. We are told that as an electron goes by, we can't know anything about it except its wave function unless we take a measurement at which time we change the wave function, what the electron might do, or some such.
I think you've got something you were told backwards. We can't generally know the full wavefunction; when we want to learn about the electron we interact with it and that changes the wavefunction (that is, changes the current state vector - of course the actual function that governs our interaction with the electron remains fixed).
> The wave function splits into two parts, say, f and g. For part f, we have a detector. For the last electron we shot, we got a detection from part f. Now, what happens to part g?
> No fair saying that part g does not exist since the Mach-Zehnder interferometer can bring such f and g back together and generate interference fringes that part f or g can't generate alone. So, part g does exist. So, what happens to it?
This is the collapse/decoherence phenomenon that people argue about. I have my views, but I can't say there's a full consensus.
> Well, three space is a big place, and we usually believe that nothing can travel, propagate faster than the speed of light. So, all the wave functions so far are still traveling, still expanding. Right? What happens to them?
If you fire an electron off into the distance then yes, it keeps travelling. Just like if you fire a cannonball whose position is described by f(x, t) = [1 if x == 2t, 0 otherwise] then yeah, that cannonball keeps going forever. This is normal physics?
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, but at that level of generality you're also talking about the mechanism by which light propagates.
Really? How does light travel in a vacuum then?
What I suspect you want, however, is some sort of substance or essential nature that makes the thing go. If that's the case, then the answer is that there are no such things. Not for light, not for ordinary classical mechanics, not for anything. Physical systems are what they do.
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Atoms aren't anything like that though. There are no little billiard balls, probability densities don't "bump", electrons don't actually orbit, and so on. Atoms just are what they are, and what they are does not admit a good "macrophysical analogy".
> There are no little billiard balls … electrons don't actually orbit Wait, what? What do they do then? My physical science education ended in high school.
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the new take is that the classical notion that the state of a system can be fully described by its properties at some moment in time is wrong. One also needs to know some information about future to fully describe evolution of the system. Do you have any references that give more details on this?
See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Schulman and the book Time’s Arrow and Archimedes’ Point by Huw Price
That seems like a very extravagant claim given that we can compute the same results without using the path integral formalism, and without having to know anything about future end points.
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the new take is that the classical notion that the state of a system can be fully described by its properties at some moment in time is wrong. One also needs to know some information about future to fully describe evolution of the system. Do you have any references that give more details on this?
See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Schulman and the book Time’s Arrow and Archimedes’ Point by Huw Price
This looks something like the Transactional Interpretation of QM, which made use of advanced as well as retarded waves to explain things like EPR correlations. I think it's fair to say this is still a very open area of research and it's way too early to say how it will end up.
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? How does light travel in a vacuum then?
In the absence of charges, Maxwell's equations reduce to `\nabla^2 F = d^2/dt^2 F`, (where F is the electromagnetic field tensor) which has solutions given by superpositions of traveling waves. What I suspect you want, however, is some sort of substance or essential nature that makes the thing go. If that's the case, then the answer is that there are no such things. Not for light, not for ordinary classical mechanics…
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
> what in your personal aesthetic tastes is making atoms more palatable? It’s pretty easy for me to imagine things bumping into each other because I see that happening all around me
All of this makes more sense when understood in terms of Field theory: David Tong: Quantum Fields https://youtu.be/zNVQfWC_evg?t=1168 "All the electrons that are in your body are not fundamental. All the electrons that exist in your body are waves of the same underlying field." The next question is, if there are no individual things, what does math count? http://www.katabane.com/mt/ontology.html
Re: The Zen anti-interpretation of quantum mechanics (2021)
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a massive amount of evidence that Quantum Mechanics is the way the Universe works, and the MWI is simply vanilla Quantum Mechanics, with zero further assumptions. The problem is that the name "Many Worlds Interpretation" sounds grandiose. "Many worlds" is simply an imaginative way of describing the existence of different states of the wavefunction - a concept that is extremely well established and universall…
QM isn’t a complete description of the universe because of gravity, dark energy, dark matter, the arrow of time, and it doesn’t explain probability. So it’s a little premature to say that’s how the universe works.
There isn't yet any successful quantum theory of gravity, but it's universally believed in the physics community that there will eventually be a quantum description of gravity. Dark energy and dark matter are merely components of the universe whose precise character is not yet known, but again, everyone believes that whatever they are, they will be described quantum mechanically. The arrow of time is merely a consequence of entropy being low in the early Universe.
The reason why physicists universally believe that the Universe is quantum mechanical is that it's impossible for QM to describe only a part of physics. If one aspect of physics is quantum mechanical, it "infects" every other aspect of physics and forces it to be quantum mechanical. You can't have elections obey quantum mechanical laws, but the gravity they produce be classical. It's really all or nothing.