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Ventura Issues

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Re: Ventura Issues

#71

Post by userbinator »

AJRF wrote: post #21

The new system settings app is painful. It freezes for up to 30 seconds at a time after I take an action. It often goes completely blank, it flickers a lot and in general it's so hard to find stuff in it - the search is bad and they have just jammed settings in places that don't make sense. I am on a 2020 MacBook Air with m1 chip, 16GB ram - wouldn't expect performance problems in the settings app, yet here we are. I…

The Windows equivalent also went through a similar and just as horrible change (Control Panel being replaced by Settings), and strangely enough, Windows 11 Settings looks disturbingly similar to the macOS Ventura one.

Re: Ventura Issues

#72

Post by cmrdporcupine »

wildrhythms wrote: post #69
AJRF wrote: post #21

The new system settings app is painful. It freezes for up to 30 seconds at a time after I take an action. It often goes completely blank, it flickers a lot and in general it's so hard to find stuff in it - the search is bad and they have just jammed settings in places that don't make sense. I am on a 2020 MacBook Air with m1 chip, 16GB ram - wouldn't expect performance problems in the settings app, yet here we are. I…

Seriously, what was wrong with the old tried and true System Preferences? Everything had a recognizable icon, every icon arranged in simple rows, and every icon lay before me in a single window. Now, I'm forced to scroll the pane on the left (unclear since scroll bars are invisible by default) to find the outermost setting, and then deal with nested navigation confined inside of the right pane. Also, gone are the rec…

It sort of feels like the only "advantage" to the new one is that it is more like the iOS Settings. Looks very similar in layout. That might be the intent. "Harmonization". Product Managers Gone Wild.

Re: Ventura Issues

#73

Post by ezfe »

AJRF wrote: post #21

The new system settings app is painful. It freezes for up to 30 seconds at a time after I take an action. It often goes completely blank, it flickers a lot and in general it's so hard to find stuff in it - the search is bad and they have just jammed settings in places that don't make sense. I am on a 2020 MacBook Air with m1 chip, 16GB ram - wouldn't expect performance problems in the settings app, yet here we are. I…

I've got an M2 Air, can't say I've experienced any of the performance/visual issues you describe.

Design wise...is a different story of course

Re: Ventura Issues

#74

Post by andrekandre »

baggy_trough wrote: post #55
AJRF wrote: post #21

The new system settings app is painful. It freezes for up to 30 seconds at a time after I take an action. It often goes completely blank, it flickers a lot and in general it's so hard to find stuff in it - the search is bad and they have just jammed settings in places that don't make sense. I am on a 2020 MacBook Air with m1 chip, 16GB ram - wouldn't expect performance problems in the settings app, yet here we are. I…

Agreed, the Settings app is horribly ugly now. So is About This Mac.

its not only ugly, its harder to use, more confusing where things are placed now...

Re: Ventura Issues

#75

Post by jxramos »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #72
wildrhythms wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, what was wrong with the old tried and true System Preferences? Everything had a recognizable icon, every icon arranged in simple rows, and every icon lay before me in a single window. Now, I'm forced to scroll the pane on the left (unclear since scroll bars are invisible by default) to find the outermost setting, and then deal with nested navigation confined inside of the right pane. Also, gone are the rec…

It sort of feels like the only "advantage" to the new one is that it is more like the iOS Settings. Looks very similar in layout. That might be the intent. "Harmonization". Product Managers Gone Wild.

This. It appears they want to harmonize the OS ecosystems. macOS has a control center UI someplace now off the menu bar which was pretty interesting to find the other week.

Re: Ventura Issues

#76

Post by andrekandre » 

  - Revealing files in Finder (either from the title bar menu or a command in another app) sometimes doesn’t work, revealing an ancestor folder instead of the actual file, or sometimes doing nothing at all.
  - Finder sometimes loses all of its sidebar items.
  - Finder sometimes forgets which sidebar sections are expanded.
  - Sometimes mounted drives disappear from the Computer view, even though they are still mounted and in use.
  - Finder windows sometimes don’t get focus when I click on them, even though Finder does become the frontmost app.
what kind of changes necessitate these kinds of degredations? just random refactoring? junior engineers? developer culture?

btw, if you've ever heard of the word kaizen(改善), the above would be called its opposite "kaiaku" (改悪)

Re: Ventura Issues

#77

Post by mjmsmith »

gymbeaux wrote: post #64
BirAdam wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long ago, the release speed in the entire industry accelerated. I knew that quality would nose dive as a result because there was no way to develop and fully test an entire OS (even for a phone) as frequently as each is being released. All operating systems are now effectively permanently in beta.

But Apple has had the right idea- they release a new version of their desktop and mobile OSes about once a year. I would surmise that their OS reliability and stability issues have more to do with the switch from Objective-C to Swift than anything else. Heck they change Swift dramatically each year (or they did in the first few years). Swift 2 was RADICALLY different from Swift 1. Swift 3 was radically different from…

There haven't been radical changes like that since Swift 3. And it's much easier to write reliable code in Swift than Objective-C.

Re: Ventura Issues

#78

Post by lapcat »

gymbeaux wrote: post #64
BirAdam wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long ago, the release speed in the entire industry accelerated. I knew that quality would nose dive as a result because there was no way to develop and fully test an entire OS (even for a phone) as frequently as each is being released. All operating systems are now effectively permanently in beta.

But Apple has had the right idea- they release a new version of their desktop and mobile OSes about once a year. I would surmise that their OS reliability and stability issues have more to do with the switch from Objective-C to Swift than anything else. Heck they change Swift dramatically each year (or they did in the first few years). Swift 2 was RADICALLY different from Swift 1. Swift 3 was radically different from…

> But Apple has had the right idea- they release a new version of their desktop and mobile OSes about once a year.

That's not the right idea. Mac OS X 10.3 through 10.7 all took well over a year of development. Yearly major releases is too fast. https://robservatory.com/a-full-history-of-macos-os-x-releas...

> I would surmise that their OS reliability and stability issues have more to do with the switch from Objective-C to Swift than anything else.

There's no evidence of this. Apple itself was one of the slowest adopters of Swift, because it needed ABI stability to put Swift in the OS. https://blog.timac.org/2022/1005-state-of-swift-and-swiftui-...

Re: Ventura Issues

#79

Post by jxramos »

blinkingled wrote: post #45

Apple on a good day does just enough to get the basics right. Beyond the basics it's a matter of luck whether something will work and continue to work reliably. The thing is even Microsoft in the post Win 10 era is reliant on insiders to test Windows releases nowadays so there's not really much competition for desktop market nor is there anything huge at stake. At this point I as a regular non-enterprise customer can…

I always felt that mantra of Apple simplicity was a cop out for lack of desire or inability to write rich complex software at scale and not get subsumed by bugs and QA load. It is a matter of prioritization too, the non sexy stuff doesn’t sell nor lead to promotions so many fundamental things just stagnate it feels.

I joke with my wife that being in the Apple ecosystem is sometimes like being married to this inconsistent and erratic spouse who oscillates between a few extremes. They bring out all this high romance show off blingy stuff that elicits high emotions and surprise and delight. But when it comes to the more mundane stuff like cleaning up and daily chores and keeping the socks and underwear off the floor they become lazy bums sleeping on the couch who can’t be bothered. They then try to make it up to you with a “hey babe check this out I can now do fancy thing xyz, see?” all the while ignoring the honeydo list of 125 things that have made no progress in the last three years. The funny thing is I’m still on the fence for determining which ratio the behaviors skew and how it all rolls up in net.

Re: Ventura Issues

#80

Post by waynecochran »

semireg wrote: post #57

I ignore macOS updates as a self preservation technique until something forces my hand such as buying a new computer or Xcode complaining it only runs on a particular release. Between macOS, cpu architecture changes, and the fast pace of Electron’s release cycle (node ABI vs native modules), I’m constantly terrified about keeping builds running. Each upgrade … I’m just clenching my chest waiting for the other shoe to…

Yep. I just updated my desktop from 10.14 to 10.15 only because I had to. Best to stay a couple of years behind. Not like the Apple of 15 years ago where their stuff just worked.
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