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Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

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Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#371

Post by philippejara »

CharlesW wrote: post #6

From https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050 , written while Tesla was at $123.15: While the markets have been closed, two major stories about Tesla have broken. A. Tesla is shutting down factories because demand is plummeting. B. Musk praised a truly insane Russian propaganda tweet, predicting the fall of the west She expects Tesla to fall below $100 by 1/1. It seems notable that the price of used T…

a...brianna wu tweet? are we in 2015 again?

How is she being quoted talking about stock prices

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#372

Post by philippejara »

astrange wrote: post #57
kylecordes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appeared to many observers that Musk was mocking the Russian propaganda, he then made the mockery explicit later. I don't understand the thesis that Musk is somehow pro-Russia. Generally his ventures are against Russia interests: SpaceX, launched in the aftermath of Russia being uninterested in selling a leftover rocket to Musk, now dominates the launch industry to the detriment of Russia, among other things halti…

Elon doesn't exactly tweet like a rational logical being at the moment. It seemed to me he was praising the tweet because it mentioned him and said he was going to be president of the US (or something like that) so he thought it was cool. Then he just snuck back in and denounced it later when he remembered he has a security clearance. He's already taken calls with Putin and randomly decided to announce Ukraine should…

>(Note, the way Elon "talks" in tweets would be sarcastic if it was someone younger, but remember he's middle aged and still calls things epic unironically.)

the way he tweets is pretty much distilled 2012-ish reddit

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#373

Post by runarberg »

xnx wrote: post #355
samwillis wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self driving stuff is (in my view) all a red herring. There is no mass market call for it, it's not going to drive further growth. The only thing it may do is help maintain their position in the higher end of the market. They should have brought out another lower cost, smaller car by now. Why haven't they built a commercial van? Why is there no family MPV? The investment in FSD is ultimately a distraction that wa…

> There is no mass market call for it Without any working product available on the market, I don't think potential customers know what they're missing. Having a truly working self-driving feature would be like having a 24 hour private chauffeur. It would dramatically change where people live, where they work, and how they take vacation. I'd probably by weekend home 10 hours away if I could fall asleep in the car on F…

> It would dramatically change where people live, where they work, and how they take vacation.

Sure, the street car revolution changed where people lived and where they worked and ultimately how cities were designed. But it has been a 100 years, and the public transit technology has gone through multiple iterations (including fully automatic [i.e. self-driving] systems and sleeper train cars). I honestly don’t see how self driving cars will change anything that public transit hasn’t changed already.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#374

Post by jacquesm »

XorNot wrote: post #353
jacquesm wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is taking on a lot of risk with their bet on Hydrogen, especially because so far the Mirai has taken off about as well as a lead balloon.

I'm pretty sure Toyota has screwed up badly on that. I love Toyotas but none of my future purchases (which will be a BEV) are going to be one.

I honestly don't get it. They can't be that stupid, and with the hybrid era pretty much over they have lost what was once a pretty good lead. They already had the drive train pretty much all they need to do at this point is to replace the mass of the ICE with a much larger battery pack and they're set to compete. That would still require a redesign of the vehicle but they have done that so many times I don't see that as an obstacle.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#375

Post by dragonwriter »

awacs wrote: post #95
nverno wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, the predictions of someone driven by passion (in this case, a passionate dislike of Musk it appears) probably aren't great in general. But, below $100 seems reasonable - the stock could still be considered 'overpriced' in the current market (at least by P/E).

There's really not much to drive sales for 2023 either. Was watching a summary of new EVs for the year and I'll give him credit on the "jet powered" roadster as very cool, but all the new exciting EVs for the average consumer are coming from GM, Ford, BMW, Toyota (with a very interesting Hydrogen powered offering which is technology I had no idea was even this developed) and a few other smaller startups. I think Ford…

> all the new exciting EVs for the average consumer are coming from GM, Ford, BMW, Toyota (with a very interesting Hydrogen powered offering which is technology I had no idea was even this developed)

Toyota has a new FCEV? The only thing thet seem to be pumping new on the EV front is their new BEV, the bZ4X.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#376

Post by dragonwriter »

jacquesm wrote: post #216
awacs wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really not much to drive sales for 2023 either. Was watching a summary of new EVs for the year and I'll give him credit on the "jet powered" roadster as very cool, but all the new exciting EVs for the average consumer are coming from GM, Ford, BMW, Toyota (with a very interesting Hydrogen powered offering which is technology I had no idea was even this developed) and a few other smaller startups. I think Ford…

Toyota is taking on a lot of risk with their bet on Hydrogen, especially because so far the Mirai has taken off about as well as a lead balloon.

> Toyota is taking on a lot of risk with their bet on Hydrogen

They took a lot of risk on it, but it was hedged with hybrids , including PHEVs (with which they have done quite well), and while they are a little late to the party with a pure BEV, they are rolling those out to.

There isn’t any real sense where I see them gambling on hydrogen now except as a side bet.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#377

Post by panick21_ »

akmarinov wrote: post #207
panick21_ wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LCID barley less any vehicles, and is losing billions, has bad automotive margin. Tesla, is growing, has leading margin, made 3 billion $ last quarter. Totally comparable.

I mean Lucid only makes 1 car that’s the equivalent of the Model S. That’s like saying Tesla pre-Model 3 is bad. Wait for Lucid’s Model 3

Well, I would recommend you go and actually compare the financials of the companies at the time they produced the same amount of vehicles.

Seriously, go and actually do the exercise, your mind will be blown.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#378

Post by jacquesm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #376
jacquesm wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is taking on a lot of risk with their bet on Hydrogen, especially because so far the Mirai has taken off about as well as a lead balloon.

> Toyota is taking on a lot of risk with their bet on Hydrogen They took a lot of risk on it, but it was hedged with hybrids , including PHEVs (with which they have done quite well), and while they are a little late to the party with a pure BEV, they are rolling those out to. There isn’t any real sense where I see them gambling on hydrogen now except as a side bet.

Here in NL they are still trying to sell them:

https://www.toyota.nl/modellen/mirai

The only non-commercial electric model they sell right now is the 'Proace City Verso', and it's not exactly a sales success. There is the BZ4X in the works (what a name) but you can only reserve it, they don't actually have them yet, production was halted, resumed, then halted again and they had a recall before they even shipped them (I don't know how that is even possible, the cause: wheel fell off).

https://www.toyota.nl/modellen/proace-city-verso-electric/bu...

The rest is - from what I can see - all hybrids, with minimal batteries. No Prius, Yaris, Aygo or Corolla with all electric drive, which would be an instant sales success. Their 2023 lineup? More hybrids. Meanwhile VW is on their second iteration of their all-electric line with four models across a broad spectrum.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#379

Post by SpelingBeeChamp »

kortilla wrote: post #243
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk’s provocative nonsense was a major reason why I didn’t consider leasing a Tesla earlier this year when I was in the market for an EV. I don’t think I’m the only one who feels this way.

What EV did you choose instead? They are all so terrible by comparison when it comes to range and charging infra that it’s hard to go elsewhere. I don’t like Tesla because of the lack of CarPlay, etc and the tight attachment to their central servers but can’t find a reasonable alternative yet.

>They are all so terrible by comparison when it comes to range and charging infra

Come again? There are at least ten non-Tesla EVs that have a rated range of 300+ miles, and DC fast charging is everywhere. Look on PlugShare and filter out Tesla connectors.

Tesla is not the only game in town. And I say that as someone who recently bought a Model S Plaid.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#380

Post by aaronbrethorst »

SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #379
kortilla wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What EV did you choose instead? They are all so terrible by comparison when it comes to range and charging infra that it’s hard to go elsewhere. I don’t like Tesla because of the lack of CarPlay, etc and the tight attachment to their central servers but can’t find a reasonable alternative yet.

>They are all so terrible by comparison when it comes to range and charging infra Come again? There are at least ten non-Tesla EVs that have a rated range of 300+ miles, and DC fast charging is everywhere. Look on PlugShare and filter out Tesla connectors. Tesla is not the only game in town. And I say that as someone who recently bought a Model S Plaid.

I can attest to this. My wife and I took a road trip from Seattle to the redwoods in California and back this summer in the aforementioned Kia, and I didn't have any issue with charging infrastructure at any point along the trip.
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