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What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

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Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#261
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the 1Password whitepaper? This isn’t exactly an easy target for any attacker.

I haven't read the 1Password whitepaper, could you elaborate? Would be curious what 1P is doing that is substantially more secure than what LP is doing (not counting the braindead stuff like not encrypting website URLs) Having been a 1P user , my guess is that, unlike LastPass, in 1P the data used to encrypt your vault includes both a completely random key and your master password, while in LastPass it's just your ma…

Yes, 1P uses a random key additionally to the master key, like you described. That's the one 1P asks you to print out and hide somewhere, and which you also need when opening a vault on a new device. I don't know what LP does, but here are some notable things I gathered from the 1P whitepaper:

- 1P has a multi-layered approach: The master key + random key (+ salts) decrypt the user's private key, which in turn is used to decrypt the vault key (because the user's public key was used to encrypt the vault key). The vault key is used to decrypt the vault's items (each individually). Giving a new member access to a vault is done by encrypting the vault key with that member's public key. (I guess that's the same for LP)

- 1P encrypts all field contents. BTW metadata (e.g. URIs) and content fields are encrypted separately, such that the former can be decrypted faster for UI and search purposes.

- 1P uses the Secure Remote Password protocol, which allows clients to authenticate with the 1P server without ever sending the actual password. Instead, during account creation, a derived key ("v") is sent from the client to the server that will be used to generate a shared secret during every authentication (without sending "v" again). "v" has been salted with the user's email address. So, by arriving at the same shared secret as the client, the server can be sure of three facts: 1) The user entered the correct master key, 2) the user's device has the correct random key in store, and 3) the user's given email matches the email that was defined when creating the vault. In the paper they write that this authentication process is actually the reason why 1P requires a random key in addition to the master key: It's impossible to brute-force the master key even if an attacker gains access to "v".

- Vault recovery with 1P prevents the team "admin" from receiving the recovered vault's data (they do learn the vault key though, that's a necessity).

- 1P are constantly evaluating whether stronger encryption schemes (e.g. elliptic curve, or, further out, post quantum crypto) need to be implemented, and if such an update happens, they have already mapped out how vaults are upgraded. I think they increased PBKDF2 passes from 10k to 100k without breaking anything. IMO a higher pass count would be better, but that would make for a quite slow UI.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a professional designer who's spent more time in my life developing FOSS than designing, I generally see FOSS projects refusing to accept design input, period. I've thought a lot about why and I see two broad problems: First, developers have a different fundamental perspective on interfaces than most people. They view interfaces as a wrapper that you use to interact with the important part: the application. To reg…

Let me respond as a developer with admittedly no taste at all, who both committed and fixed plenty of atrocities: Just like security, design is one of these things where snake oil salesmen are everywhere, to the point that finding a good one without becoming a designer yourself is hard. I also notice you identify as an artist, not a psychologist, which seems the wrong approach to me. So what will happen if I let desi…

Standardize communication, if the team talks on discord, have a channel for design. If there are github issue labels for feature requests, have labels for various design requests. Things like this go a long way! Contrast how people feel about translation changes vs design changes. Most people don't even know if the translation is valid! They accept it however easier than design changes purely because there is so much more standardization with translation changes. Create spaces where design talks can happen without people feeling like they're stepping over others toes.

Create a design document that new members can reference, copy, and base changes from. Figma is a great tool for this, but even if you don't have a design in place, even an open github issue or notion page stating the pulse of the project is great. What is the brand, why are the colors the way they are, who is the main user of the project, what are current discomforts about the design? It's hard to propose design changes (beyond micro issues) when designers have absolutely no idea what was actively chosen and what was a throwaway idea. This design document isn't just for designers! Developers also need it, especially front end developers who would need to know important things like hey we do not have access to images beyond 50x50 from the API.

I feel as though these two can go a very very long way with designers. They aren't silver bullets by any means, especially not designers who aren't developers at all, but it can go a long way to encourage larger creative solutions.

Oh and A/B testing! You don't have to have a grand official A/B system (although there are quite nice systems these days), even releasing a change but explicitly asking users for their feedback on it can go a very long way in improving trust on the team and moving design decisions away from "personal taste" and onto "this change caused a 30% drop in purchases" objectivity.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe that developers can't do design, then why do you think you can develop?

Having worked as a professional software developer in a reputable development organization for over a decade with steady advancement before I decided to go to school for design is a good enough indicator for me. Being asked to speak at a couple of conferences about my dev work is another good sign I guess. Suggesting that being a software developer doesn't also qualify you to be a designer seems to have really bother…

No, it's just amusing how hypocritical you are. You can be a designer and a developer, but nobody else can?

You:

> Developers shouldn't expect themselves to be able to do good design work

Also you:

> Having worked as a professional software developer in a reputable development organization for over a decade with steady advancement before I decided to go to school for design is a good enough indicator for me.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#264
post #258

A (perhaps) unconventional approach to password management, which I recommend to anyone. If you enjoy complexity, this is too simple for you. No one can steal something that's not written down Just like the Navajo code talkers in WW II had a system that was memorized, so even if the Japanese captured another Navajo and tortured him (which they did), he couldn't reveal the code. Have some hints to yourself, and store…

Oh, perfect. A three-letter word, "earth revolves around the ...". I didn't write it down, so no one can steal it. Simple indeed, thanks!

if that's the quality of your hints, I'd say stick with the password managers.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a professional designer who's spent more time in my life developing FOSS than designing, I generally see FOSS projects refusing to accept design input, period. I've thought a lot about why and I see two broad problems: First, developers have a different fundamental perspective on interfaces than most people. They view interfaces as a wrapper that you use to interact with the important part: the application. To reg…

Let me respond as a developer with admittedly no taste at all, who both committed and fixed plenty of atrocities: Just like security, design is one of these things where snake oil salesmen are everywhere, to the point that finding a good one without becoming a designer yourself is hard. I also notice you identify as an artist, not a psychologist, which seems the wrong approach to me. So what will happen if I let desi…

How would you treat the same problem if it was security, or some really deep performance-critical vendor-specific database design issue or any other problem that wasn't practical to learn yourself before acting? Design is absolutely no more full of snake oil salesmen than web development, for example, you just intuitively know how to spot shitty cargo cult WordPress 'developers' and not shitty designers.

Look up examples of design proposals for user interfaces. Unless it's critically important, aesthetics won't even be part of the equation at first... Core User Interface design is no more related to decoration than development is. Most UI design proposals deliberately use low fidelity block-outs and wireframes to avoid getting sucked into a useless cul-de-sac about Joe hating Green and Jane hating helvetica.

The process of interface design should involve users directly, have sound reasoning you can interrogate, and work directly towards solving problems. There should be defined user paths or user stories or storyboards that address the problems your users solve with your software, and the easiest, most efficient, must intuitive way for them to do it. Every element should have a reason for being where it is and working like it does for the users who need it to work like that. If it involves a change, that needs to be justifiable.

Have them slap together a quick prototype, even if it's a series of still frames. If you see something that works less efficiently than it did previously, well that user story needs to be amended or a new one created. It's it intuitive? Post it publicly and ask for comment being aware that some will just oppose any change and squash bikeshedding by reminding people of the scope of the proposal. There will likely be multiple rounds of revisions. A core tenet of UI design is acknowledging that pulling a big chunk of design out of your ass without consulting users is an insta fail.

Taste comes into play more with branding and identity, though fundamentally you're still solving problems with interrogatable reasoning... They're just communicating to who should be interested in your software and how they should feel about using it. This is a different design discipline, and while some interface designers have experience in both, don't assume it.

Definitely don't assume someone with a pretty design portfolio can design your interface... Their portfolio should include studies of ways they made software interfaces more effectively solve their users problems.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#266
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you have the password and key, you'd need to brute force hash and masterPasswd. Seems hard.

It isn’t. You certainly used MD5, SHA1, SHA256 or SHA512 as hash, with SHA256 being the most likely one. All of these are very easy to bruteforce – if someone has one of your passwords, bruteforcing your master password won’t take all too long.

hash(x+const), hash^n(x), etc. are also hash functions.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#267

A lot of people argue that a cloud provider has more expertise in a given domain than a customer for whom IT isn't a core competency. I reject this argument. What we have here is the classic principal-agent problem in economics. Your data is (or should be) sacred to you. LastPass's regard for your data is only proportional to the profit they think they can extract from you. Beyond that, they only answer to Citrix's s…

Cirtrix hasn't ever been the parent company to LastPass. LogMeIn bought Citrix's GoTo product division, and also bought LastPass, so that's the extent of their relationship.

LogMeIn and subsequently LastPass is has been owned by the private equity firm Francisco Partners since 2020. Ire can be focused on Francisco Partners as they completely gutted LastPass and other LogMeIn products shortly after acquisition.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#268
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any URL on the web could host a browser exploit that requires no interaction beyond visiting, but if I had to guess which one were most likely to, I'd put phishing links up there. > You should trust that your browser is secure enough to render random webpages. I honestly don't. Is dangerous.link/virus.exe any more dangerous than nytimes.com? Probably not. However if some 0-day, no interaction browser exploit does exi…

>However if some 0-day, no interaction browser exploit does exist, it's easier to put the exploit on the some lookalike phishing domain rather than additionally exploit some mainstream site. If you read through stuff like the security updates for new iOS version it becomes clear that this does exist at all times. Usually most of them are likely not even not found by attackers before they're fixed, but you can never b…

Exactly, which is why I don’t assume my browser is secure. I could get pwned by an ad on a trustworthy site, but there’s not much I can do about that so I take that risk. Visiting sketchy URLs is a risk I can choose not to take.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#269
post #6

I know password manger services are super convenient, and probably worth the cost for most, especially non technical users. But my preference has always been to manually manage my own local KeyPass database. Sure it’s more cumbersome when it comes to syncing between devices, but it’s really not a big deal. One or twice a month I will combine my DBs from all my devices ok one machine, use the built in ‘merge’ function…

Also a long time keepass user.

The db file on my Mac is shared with iCloud and is acted as the master file. All updates happen on the mac and the rest of the clients just sync and do read only. It has been working well.

All my website passwords are saved in firefox account so I rarely need to update the db file.

Re: What’s in a PR statement: LastPass breach explained

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked as a professional software developer in a reputable development organization for over a decade with steady advancement before I decided to go to school for design is a good enough indicator for me. Being asked to speak at a couple of conferences about my dev work is another good sign I guess. Suggesting that being a software developer doesn't also qualify you to be a designer seems to have really bother…

No, it's just amusing how hypocritical you are. You can be a designer and a developer, but nobody else can? You: > Developers shouldn't expect themselves to be able to do good design work Also you: > Having worked as a professional software developer in a reputable development organization for over a decade with steady advancement before I decided to go to school for design is a good enough indicator for me.

> Developers shouldn't expect themselves to be able to do good design work any more than designers should expect themselves to be able to make scalable, reliable, maintainable, production-ready code.

Reread that sentence. It does not say developers can't do good design work and it doesn't say that designers can't write good code: it says they shouldn't expect to simply be able to do it. Nobody should expect to be able to do anything non-trivial they haven't deliberately learned how to do. Unless you have evidence that most developers have done the years of learning it takes to become a competent interface designer, that's just not a controversial statement.

If you're going to continue trawl my comment for minutia to be aggrieved by instead of making any coherent counterargument, you're on your own.

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