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Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

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Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#51
post #4

I'm just glad because that's going to end the longstanding misconception that phones are connected to satellites. They will finally be.

I have never heard of this misconception, but fixing the notoriously unreliable mobile coverage by turning existing phones into "satellite (internet!) phones" sounds wild

I was common amongst a portion of the general population in the 90s when people didn't have a clue and couldn't google things.

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#52

This will hopefully give Canadians real options for mobile phone plans. It will be "illegal" because our telecom monopoly (oligopoly) writes the laws, but presumably with a US address it will be possible, like it was with satellite dishes, to get a proper phone on a network that doesn't gouge you. I'll be curious what the monopoly does to try and fight it.

There are affordable plans in Canada. It's just that they aren't really advertised. I have unlimited Canadian talk+text + 2GB for $35/month. Without the data (just unlimited domestic text+voice) it's $20/month. This plan isn't public...for some reason my wife got emailed about it and she got signed up. They allowed me to sign up too, even though they hadn't notified me about it.

I think these plans are used to entice people on PAYG onto a plan, so they don't advertise them to everyone.

For roaming data+voice I use a BNEsim e-sim, which works very well.

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#54
post #28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not exactly "satellite network", it's piggy-backing on an existing SAR reception infrastructure that used to require somewhat expensive dedicated devices. Not sure it's a good idea, I'd expect a wave of SAR requests for not real emergencies.

Aren't SARs generally mounted on satellites? E.g. https://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Space_Engineering_Techn...

Search-And-Rescue, not Synthetic Aperture Radar.

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#55
post #4

I'm just glad because that's going to end the longstanding misconception that phones are connected to satellites. They will finally be.

Ya know I am now realizing that I always assumed that I thought the link was phone -> tower -> satellite, and I’m just now realizing that that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

They are often off in the woods, though! Do some connect to satellites?

Edit: apparently satellite backhaul is a thing but kinda rare.

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#56

Huh, I wonder how they manage to pick up the tiny amount of RF energy a normal phone can output from that far away, and through the noise of literally millions of other phones in the satellite's field of view. Gotta be some real weird RF voodoo happening in there.

Cell phones can supposedly connect to towers up to 25 miles away (presumably at the slowest supported data rate.) Starlink is about 350 miles up. Let's round up to 400 to allow for satellites not being directly overhead. That's 2^4 times farther away, or 24dB of signal difference.

It seems like a sufficiently fancy phased antenna array on the satellite could compensate for that. Also, the atmosphere is 99% gone at 20 miles up, so that probably helps. Also, with the goal of only supporting SMS, a modern software defined radio chipset could probably be made to use an incredibly low data rate that adds more signal margin than currently used by any cell network.

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#57

Huh, I wonder how they manage to pick up the tiny amount of RF energy a normal phone can output from that far away, and through the noise of literally millions of other phones in the satellite's field of view. Gotta be some real weird RF voodoo happening in there.

You are correct - two things happening here: 1. Picking up RF energy from far away. This is the easy part - cell phone antennas are already a big compromise and can be improved on if you increase size or cost. Instead of omni-directional antennas and low-power amplifiers, a directional antenna and low noise amp will work wonders. Cell phones already have extra power to get through buildings and trees; in this case that power would be used to go extra distance (because there won't be these obstacles).

2. Many users seen at once. Each beam is only a 15-mile-diameter circle. In the really remote areas where this coverage would be needed, I don't suspect that there would be too many cell phones - maybe a few hundred at most.

http://www.satmagazine.com/story.php?number=1026762698

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, so far they only promised to. So, probably it’ll be done the same way that Teslas could self drive, across the county, unassisted in 2017

> Well, so far they only promised to. Apple’s solution works today. Consumers are using it. This is mentioned in the article.

Apple’s solution is to have you find the signal and manually point to it to send a very small payload on a very slow link.

If we’re looking for existing technology, current actually working GPS phones would be a better showcase of what’s possible.

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#59
post #15
post #2

Just as a PSA in case not everyone knows this new feature. In the US and a growing number of other countries, the latest iPhones have a satellite network for emergencies. If tech giants are going to spend money on something cool, might as well use it. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213426

It's not exactly "satellite network", it's piggy-backing on an existing SAR reception infrastructure that used to require somewhat expensive dedicated devices. Not sure it's a good idea, I'd expect a wave of SAR requests for not real emergencies.

While the consequences of easier communications when you get in trouble (or just get scared/tired) in the outdoors isn't intuitively obvious, SAR people I've chatted with generally seem to think that better comms is a net positive in that people can communicate before things get really dicey.

ADDED: There are also perhaps more common situations like going off the road in a snowstorm.

Re: Existing smartphones will connect with new satellite constellations in 2023

#60
post #4

I'm just glad because that's going to end the longstanding misconception that phones are connected to satellites. They will finally be.

Ya know I am now realizing that I always assumed that I thought the link was phone -> tower -> satellite, and I’m just now realizing that that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. They are often off in the woods, though! Do some connect to satellites? Edit: apparently satellite backhaul is a thing but kinda rare.

I believe it is commom for the tower in this situation to have a point to point link to the another tower.
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