Hats off to just... non-engineers in general. Some of the most important people in society like nurses, teachers, and drivers get paid absolutely terribly and are being forced to fight tooth and nail just to get a pay rise that matches inflation. We tap keys on a keyboard and drink coffee in air conditioned offices (or at home) and get paid stupid amounts.
Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
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Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#52If you've seen Margin Call , you know the scene I'm thinking of right now. The "I Built a Bridge" scene. Beginning in the mid-70s something went horribly, horribly wrong with the way capital handles risk management, resulting in "real stuff" being undervalued by orders of magnitude, since it was by nature riskier. Hence that aforementuioned scene. Russian-style command economies failed in some part because they lacke…
Tbh, your comment looks like it was authored by an LLM -- what is a "telluric state"?
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#53Mech E here. The reality we’re paid less is because it’s harder to make a profit (but to be fair, MechE in tech get paid well still). Making good margins is really hard. You have one shot to do anything. Worse of all, anyone can take apart your design, reverse engineer and sell your product by 20% less because they don’t have to worry about recovering R&D. Most Americans won’t even bat an eye, they’ll just buy whatev…
This is the correct insight. The costs that were going to materials, regulations etc just don't exist with software. So the majority of the money goes to the majority of the inputs which is labor.
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#54Over the past few years, I've been taking driving very seriously in terms of skill development and practice.
One ritual I've started doing is thanking my car after every drive.
For the privilege I'm afforded by being able to drive freely unlike most of the world.
For the car itself for holding up so reliably.
And for the hundred+ years of engineering man hours and passion given to get where we are today.
In any population of drivers, the effort put in saves (literally) countless lives every day. And while things like sturdy bridges and the reliability of tall buildings are obviously important, driving involves flinging your fragile body extremely fast (in comparison to normal movement) while fighting tooth and nail against physics to perform as you want.
It keeps me humble and, as a bonus, makes me care for my car more through maintenance and cleanliness.
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#55Yes, but. Most real world engineers could also be software engineers too. I studied Mechanical Engineering and had to learn Fortran and Pascal as part of my undergrad. What I find strange is that some of the best software engineers are not as strong at Math as you would expect. Of course there are exceptions (and no doubt they are all here on HN!). So while real world engineers can cross the divide to become software…
I am generally quite good at Discrete Math I am terrible at Linear Algebra and Calculus.
I strongly dislike (and am terrible at) linear algebra and probability theory. Calculus seems fun though. And we all probably use Boolean algebra daily at our jobs, if unintentionally.
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#56If you've seen Margin Call , you know the scene I'm thinking of right now. The "I Built a Bridge" scene. Beginning in the mid-70s something went horribly, horribly wrong with the way capital handles risk management, resulting in "real stuff" being undervalued by orders of magnitude, since it was by nature riskier. Hence that aforementuioned scene. Russian-style command economies failed in some part because they lacke…
At least link to it – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Mc-38C88g
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#57If you've seen Margin Call , you know the scene I'm thinking of right now. The "I Built a Bridge" scene. Beginning in the mid-70s something went horribly, horribly wrong with the way capital handles risk management, resulting in "real stuff" being undervalued by orders of magnitude, since it was by nature riskier. Hence that aforementuioned scene. Russian-style command economies failed in some part because they lacke…
You're not wrong. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#58The reason software engineers make more money than other engineers is quite simple. Software scales a lot better than hardware, so a lot more money can be made with it. Thus more business are built on it, thus demand for those who can build software, thus higher pay.
That software engineers be pampered or not is a result of demand being high for the skills. In the long term, it's not a matter of industry culture (as this wouldn't survive financial pressure under stress) but really a simple result of relative rarity in the face of excessive demand.
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#59Yes, but. Most real world engineers could also be software engineers too. I studied Mechanical Engineering and had to learn Fortran and Pascal as part of my undergrad. What I find strange is that some of the best software engineers are not as strong at Math as you would expect. Of course there are exceptions (and no doubt they are all here on HN!). So while real world engineers can cross the divide to become software…
The best software engineers I have ever worked with have come from disciplines with different math focus: math, physics, physical engineering fields (mechanical, civil, etc.). Discrete math, the kind employed in CS curricula, is good for the theoretical discipline but in the vast majority of practical cases it’s sufficient to get by with a kind of CRC cheat sheet of algorithms and their performance characteristics, with corresponding language specific library implementations that someone from CS built.
Although it does help to actually learn the underlying theory, too: makes one just that much more capable
Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers
#60The economic principle that causes this unfairness is simple: the closer you are to the end consumer, the more money you make.