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Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

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Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#71

Post by nashashmi »

michaeltimo wrote: post #69
nashashmi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we encourage people to protest their govt, we endanger their lives while being risk free of our own. I fear that many of the people who have encouraged these protests are still in the shadows smiling everytime someone dies. Alinejad is one of them.

The main reason for these demonstrations is the systematic repression of this corrupt dictator's regime for over 4 decades, and not the coverage of the news and the reflection of the people's voices by Iranian journalists like Alinejad. What causes the killing of people is this bloodthirsty regime and its dictator, Khamenei. Please don't write the regime's fallacies here, no one buys it.

I doubt anyone, save Iran's western opponents, believes the demonstrations are a result of built up systematic repression. ONLY women are participating the vast majority of the times and males who are attempting to support THEM. This is not something that has been building up. But rather was instigated in a color revolution.

Calling Alinejad a journalist is like calling Edward Snowden a journalist. They are nothing other than whistleblowers. Except Alinejad lied this one instance and shows glee when people die.

Please don't make these protests largely about the regime. They are specifically protesting for their rights.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#72

Post by erenyeager »

jemmyw wrote: post #63
erenyeager wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there truly freedom? This is a deep question beyond patronizing insults about primitiveness. What freedom is there truly, when humans are so prone to influences that would seem to chain them. What freedom is there if one becomes addicted to some substance, for example? What freedom is there in being distracted from one’s purpose and higher rational aims due to being in a temptous environment? I think you will not…

What makes those higher rational aims so special? Why are they higher? Aren't you also distracted from your "purpose" by needing to eat and rest? So why not also by the need for beautiful company? You don't really have a purpose in the greater scheme of things. Your desire to not be distracted shouldn't impinge on others. If it's so important to you then lock yourself away rather than chaining the dress code of women…

You and I are different and I have no agreement with your conclusions.

Eat and rest are also things that do well to be moderated.

You mention chains but modesty and purity is a form of freedom from basal desire and unpleasantness. And many times in society we make socially responsible decisions. For example, it is pretty much understandable that drinking culture in the US with driving has been dangerous, thus DUI laws.

Similarly, encouraging modesty in society and cultivating shyness protects against many harms to society, like increased relationships out of wedlock, greed (modesty is also about humbleness and avoiding looking at what others have), and objectification/commercialization of the human body.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#73

Post by jemmyw »

erenyeager wrote: post #72
jemmyw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes those higher rational aims so special? Why are they higher? Aren't you also distracted from your "purpose" by needing to eat and rest? So why not also by the need for beautiful company? You don't really have a purpose in the greater scheme of things. Your desire to not be distracted shouldn't impinge on others. If it's so important to you then lock yourself away rather than chaining the dress code of women…

You and I are different and I have no agreement with your conclusions. Eat and rest are also things that do well to be moderated. You mention chains but modesty and purity is a form of freedom from basal desire and unpleasantness. And many times in society we make socially responsible decisions. For example, it is pretty much understandable that drinking culture in the US with driving has been dangerous, thus DUI law…

Nothing wrong with relationships out of wedlock. That's how you find out who you like and what you like.

You have your freedom concept upside down. Like I say, you are free to lock yourself in a room if you can't control your own desires, and that way the rest of us can get on with our lives. This sounds like your problem and nobody elses.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#74

Post by regularjack »

KunafaPizza wrote: post #46
sorenjan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of dress codes are there for muslim men? I regularly see muslim immigrant families in the summer where the man wears shorts and no shirt, and the woman wears a long black fully covering fabric. And young daughters maybe six years old with hijab.

Men = generally the navel to the knee must be covered. > And young daughters maybe six years old with hijab. To encourage them to wear it, get them accustomed to it. Its not required for them. Again if someone's knee-jerk reaction to that is "oh my God you are indoctrinating little children who are so innocent, this is child abuse!!!" then I want them to know THAT IS OKAY for them to believe. Like I said above, hatre…

People don't hate Islam, people hate measures imposed on 50% of the population.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#75

Post by erenyeager »

jemmyw wrote: post #73
erenyeager wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I are different and I have no agreement with your conclusions. Eat and rest are also things that do well to be moderated. You mention chains but modesty and purity is a form of freedom from basal desire and unpleasantness. And many times in society we make socially responsible decisions. For example, it is pretty much understandable that drinking culture in the US with driving has been dangerous, thus DUI law…

Nothing wrong with relationships out of wedlock. That's how you find out who you like and what you like. You have your freedom concept upside down. Like I say, you are free to lock yourself in a room if you can't control your own desires, and that way the rest of us can get on with our lives. This sounds like your problem and nobody elses.

Many examples worldwide of people getting married happily and successfully without extended courting, cohabitation, and premarital relations.

And you are free to leave off arguing and jabs but seems that desire still pulls you in. I am done with this discussion, and freely choosing to end it.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#76

Post by u801e »

erenyeager wrote: post #70
u801e wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's substantial disagreement around this issue in the Muslim world as evidenced by the fact that many women don't wear head coverings. But I will say that if you're attracting attention to yourself in an effort to be modest, then that's a logical contradiction. Allah gave us the ability to reason and based on one's ability to read through the source material (Quran and Hadith), one should be able to come up with…

I would like to note the fact that some numbers of people comply or do not comply in accordance with divine law does not imply a disagreement with the validity of the law. Rather, it may be due to someone’s ignorance, or shortcomings that they make mistakes. Many orthodox methodologies of deriving legal rulings (fiqh) from Islamic sources already exist. Scholars from all orthodox schools of thought agree on the woman…

> the fact that some numbers of people comply or do not comply in accordance with divine law does not imply a disagreement with the validity of the law. Rather, it may be due to someone’s ignorance, or shortcomings that they make mistakes.

That's not a true premise and an argument based on that isn't sound.

In any case, I'm not on Hacker News to discuss religion, so I'll end the discussion here.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#77

Post by ameen »

YoJohnAdams wrote: post #52

Salute to the girls who are fighting for their rights they deserve. #SayNoToHijab

That’s a biased inaccurate hashtag. A sensible person would say yes to personal freedoms - it’s their choice. Don’t impose either world view on them.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#78

Post by jemmyw »

erenyeager wrote: post #75
jemmyw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with relationships out of wedlock. That's how you find out who you like and what you like. You have your freedom concept upside down. Like I say, you are free to lock yourself in a room if you can't control your own desires, and that way the rest of us can get on with our lives. This sounds like your problem and nobody elses.

Many examples worldwide of people getting married happily and successfully without extended courting, cohabitation, and premarital relations. And you are free to leave off arguing and jabs but seems that desire still pulls you in. I am done with this discussion, and freely choosing to end it.

Sure, there's many examples of many things, but that's not really significant. The point of being free to court, cohabit and have relations is that you're also free not to do those things. Why restrict other people from doing what they want in this context just because you don't want to?

Yeah but I'm OK with it, and I kept coming back because you never address the central issue. Why do other people have to moderate themselves because of your desires?

I doubt you'll read this but here's a simple thought experiment. If you went away on vacation and came back and found that everyone in your office had decided to work wearing only underwear, for how long exactly would this bother you and prevent work? I reckon I'd be distracted for maybe 5 minutes. I've seen all there is to see already, as has every other adult in the room. Desire should come from intimacy and possibility, not from seeing someone dressed in what is, in your opinion, provocative. What about the people who find moderate dress sexy and overtly sexy clothing a turn off, where do they exist in your world?

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#79

Post by KunafaPizza »

regularjack wrote: post #74
KunafaPizza wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men = generally the navel to the knee must be covered. > And young daughters maybe six years old with hijab. To encourage them to wear it, get them accustomed to it. Its not required for them. Again if someone's knee-jerk reaction to that is "oh my God you are indoctrinating little children who are so innocent, this is child abuse!!!" then I want them to know THAT IS OKAY for them to believe. Like I said above, hatre…

People don't hate Islam, people hate measures imposed on 50% of the population.

Measures imposed on a population IS Islam. That's what people don't understand.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#80

Post by thoew232s »

ameen wrote: post #14
obituary_latte wrote: post #7

I feel proud as a human to see these brave women standing up for their rights and wish them and their fellow countrypeople all of the success with no bloodshed. It's time we move out of the age of religious compulsion on all fronts.

Funny thing is, as a practicing muslim - there is no compulsion in religion (direct quote from the Qur'an). Iran literally is using the ignorance of the populace to push their own means of controlling the masses.

You are missing the point. Individual should be free to ignore religion. Every religion has bad verses. Quran advocates to kill non belivers and other religious people and yet many choose not to do it. This is not a problem when you live in a secular democratic country. But once you live in a islamic state this law can not be questioned even if you dont like it. For this reason the main point here is not what religion allows or dis allows. It is people should have the right to say fuck off to religion.
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