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Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

science.org

11–20 of 78 posts

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#11
post #3

I've never thought anything related to chemistry was simple, so if it really is more complex then I'm glad I'm in IT.

> I've never thought anything related to chemistry was simple

I was an EE/CS major and getting A's in the two chemistry courses I took in college is one of my proudest achievements because I had to work so hard for them. Nothing about chemistry was intuitive or simple for me.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#12
post #10
post #2

I remember a bit of this in undergrad gen chem. If pH stands for -log([H+]), how can pure water (H2O) have a pH of 7? In theory, there shouldn't be any hydrogen ions in pure water. Turns out there are two simplifications being made: i. H+ in aqueous solution is synonymous with hydronium ion (H3O+). ii. Water is in an equilibrium autoionization reaction with itself and the hydronium and hydroxide ions: 2H2O H3O+ + OH-…

Perhaps we've ended up full circle on this again as the current leading theory is H₂O actually forms the cation H⁺·(H₂O)₂·(H₂O)₄, where the H⁺ forms a hydrogen bond to two H₂Os which form two more hydrogen bonds to two H₂Os each: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946644/

Ha, I wonder if that structure provides any more insights into pH.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#13
post #2

I remember a bit of this in undergrad gen chem. If pH stands for -log([H+]), how can pure water (H2O) have a pH of 7? In theory, there shouldn't be any hydrogen ions in pure water. Turns out there are two simplifications being made: i. H+ in aqueous solution is synonymous with hydronium ion (H3O+). ii. Water is in an equilibrium autoionization reaction with itself and the hydronium and hydroxide ions: 2H2O H3O+ + OH-…

Interestingly this was all in the curriculum for my high school chemistry class.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#14
post #10
post #2

I remember a bit of this in undergrad gen chem. If pH stands for -log([H+]), how can pure water (H2O) have a pH of 7? In theory, there shouldn't be any hydrogen ions in pure water. Turns out there are two simplifications being made: i. H+ in aqueous solution is synonymous with hydronium ion (H3O+). ii. Water is in an equilibrium autoionization reaction with itself and the hydronium and hydroxide ions: 2H2O H3O+ + OH-…

Perhaps we've ended up full circle on this again as the current leading theory is H₂O actually forms the cation H⁺·(H₂O)₂·(H₂O)₄, where the H⁺ forms a hydrogen bond to two H₂Os which form two more hydrogen bonds to two H₂Os each: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946644/

The water memory folks will be up in arms over this discovery!

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my mind was first blown when our physics teacher asked us if H2O conducts electricity. And naturally we all said yeah[1]. We were naturally wrong, but pure water is amazing in its own right. edit: decided to add an edit just in case someone tries to test this claim [1] https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/sci...

Water ice is a semiconductor and can be doped, like silicon, to make transistors. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o61wtb7dSRA

This video seems to confuse semiconductors with "materials with a negative thermal coefficient of resistivity". Saying "this gets more conductive as you heat it up" does not a semiconductor make, as far as I understand.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#16
Many people have never seen stainless steel rust. I have. At a slightly leaky Swagelok compression fitting on the HCl-containing gas mixture bottle for a XeCl excimer laser. The leaking HCl combines with the room humidity to make an acid that will rust stainless. And it’s brown oxide rust, induced by the stripping of protective oxides by the HCl.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#17
post #2

I remember a bit of this in undergrad gen chem. If pH stands for -log([H+]), how can pure water (H2O) have a pH of 7? In theory, there shouldn't be any hydrogen ions in pure water. Turns out there are two simplifications being made: i. H+ in aqueous solution is synonymous with hydronium ion (H3O+). ii. Water is in an equilibrium autoionization reaction with itself and the hydronium and hydroxide ions: 2H2O H3O+ + OH-…

Nice bit of insight! For anyone confused like me: I believe it should read "about 10^-7 mols of hydronium ions per liter", which is about 6*10^16 ions per liter.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#18
post #6

Free text of the research paper: https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/6353634...

I recommend to take a look at the research paper because it has a few drawing that show how the Cl- and H+ [1] are connected with the molecules of the solvent. I like Lowe's post very much, but this really need a few graphics.

[1] Note that the H+ is never alone. It's too difficult to remove that electron from the Hydrogen, so H+ is a shorthand for something more complicated.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water ice is a semiconductor and can be doped, like silicon, to make transistors. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o61wtb7dSRA

This video seems to confuse semiconductors with "materials with a negative thermal coefficient of resistivity". Saying "this gets more conductive as you heat it up" does not a semiconductor make, as far as I understand.

Why not? It's not practical for traditional uses of semiconductors, but it has a mechanism to control conductivity.

Re: Hydrochloric acid is more complicated than you think

#20
post #5

One thing I always wonder is what exactly does HCl dissolve in the stomach, and how does it not destroy the nutritional value of the food?

> ...and how does it not destroy the nutritional value of the food?

Acids destroying whatever they touch is mostly a "kiddie" version of reality. 99.9% of acids found outside of chemistry labs and industrial settings are no more dangerous or destructive (as acids) than soda pop, lime juice, or human vomit (all of which are acids).

The reason is that some far stronger and/or more dangerous acids occasionally show up in household settings. Example: "battery acid", splashed on the skin, can cause horrific & life-long damage in seconds. Teaching kids to stay far away from anything labeled "Acid" is kinda like teaching 'em not to play with fire.

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