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US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

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Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#131

Post by landemva »

nixgeek wrote: post #45
prottog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much share your concern and frustration, but even I take convenience over principle in some matters. I happily use TSA PreCheck, despite hating the fact that you have to put yourself on a government list to restore a level of dignity while traveling that the same government took away in the first place. It's a constant struggle with a lot to sacrifice for your principles. See Richard Stallman for an example of…

Global Entry and TSA Pre probably saved me >100 hours of queuing in the last 3-5 years, and I imagine I’d also have missed a handful of flights had I needed to endure the regular checkpoint queues in order to make a tight connection. It’s definitely a concern for me too, but like you, convenience trumps principle sometimes and travel is already unpleasant enough that “taking a stand” and making travel more unpleasant…

> convenience trumps principle

There it is. We make our choices and our children live with the consequences.

I have always opted out of TSA body scans and have been a 100k flier. Frequent fliers know which cattle lanes to use for no scans. Arrive a few minutes early and they even wipe your hands with a cloth and let you know if your hands are dirty.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#132

Post by hcks »

epolanski wrote: post #120
LarryMullins wrote: post #77

Whether it's good local privacy laws in your country or a good privacy-respecting TOS from a company, both are basically worthless when a bigger entity comes barging into the picture. So your government collects biometric data but passes laws promising not to misuse it... you may very well find that those promises are worth less than dirt when a country with leverage over your own starts making demands that your gove…

Why would we have to give two damns about American demands, I don't see that having any chance.

Yeah ahah no chance sure. What are these silly Americans thinking lol we are strong sovereign nations aren’t we ;)

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#133

Post by Simon_O_Rourke »

hardlianotion wrote: post #23

One question that always seems to be unclear and insufficiently negotiated is reciprocity. What is the US going to offer in return. If they do offer to reciprocate, it actually needs to be delivered before the deal is live. That said, I think it is a shitty deal for these leaky, insecure, bad faith entities to be able to negotiate off to the side with our sensitive personal data like this.

Reciprocity is a well understood legal precedent when it comes to things like deportation, I can imagine the European courts asking things like this when the Feds start clamoring for access.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#134

Post by MonkeyClub »

EGreg wrote: post #88
bombolo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean USA won't misuse this data?

We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different? They don’t spy on their own citizens but they exchange info with the other spy agencies, so…

> They don’t spy on their own citizens

They sure do; whatever gave you the impression they don’t?

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#135

Post by LarryMullins »

epolanski wrote: post #120
LarryMullins wrote: post #77

Whether it's good local privacy laws in your country or a good privacy-respecting TOS from a company, both are basically worthless when a bigger entity comes barging into the picture. So your government collects biometric data but passes laws promising not to misuse it... you may very well find that those promises are worth less than dirt when a country with leverage over your own starts making demands that your gove…

Why would we have to give two damns about American demands, I don't see that having any chance.

Even if you're certain America today and into the indeterminate future has no leverage over your country, can't subvert your elections, bribe or blackmail your politicians, threaten sanctions or worse, then you still have to worry about American spies simply stealing that data.

Such private data should never be collected in the first place. You may as well stack up gold bars in your home, in plain view of street-level windows. Such concentrations of data/wealth are asking for trouble. Get rid of it now and you won't have to worry about keeping it secure in the future, no matter what world events may unfold.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#136

Post by EGreg »

MonkeyClub wrote: post #134
EGreg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different? They don’t spy on their own citizens but they exchange info with the other spy agencies, so…

> They don’t spy on their own citizens They sure do; whatever gave you the impression they don’t?

Their mandate doesnt allow it

https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#137

Post by dragonwriter »

miguelazo wrote: post #89
jeltz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it really? The EU can just respond with: "no". And while that would hurt the economy of the EU it would also hurt the economy of the US. I do not really see any reason for the EU to say yes to this unless the EU gets something in return.

[flagged]

> What is Germany getting in return for having Nordstream 2 blown up by the US/allies?

Nothing, because that didn’t happen. (Most likely, Russia blew up the not-being-used pipe as a capacity demonstration aimed at Baltic Pipe, to raise the perceived cost by government decisionmakers of continuing support for Ukraine; they probably also juice the propaganda about the US being behind it, to promote internal strife in the West between the people that can be influenced by that propaganda and their governments.)

> Besides 10x energy prices and its industrial economic base set back 10 years.

Since NS2 wasn’t being used, that didn’t happen as a result of it being destroyed, either.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#138

Post by hcks »

miguelazo wrote: post #89
jeltz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it really? The EU can just respond with: "no". And while that would hurt the economy of the EU it would also hurt the economy of the US. I do not really see any reason for the EU to say yes to this unless the EU gets something in return.

[flagged]

It’s impossible that it was the US that blew Nordstream, because it would have made the European allies very upset, and there is NO WAY the US wanted to make them upset.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#139

Post by cesarb »

ryandrake wrote: post #30
jylam wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even your own government institutions, it's another totally separate government asking for your biometric data.

Disclaimer: I’m totally against any normalization of the collection/sharing of biometric data. But just to play Devil’s Advocate: Let’s say I’m a boring white midwestern HVAC contractor with a mortgage and 2.5 kids. Big Bad China acquires a picture of my face and my fingerprints. Also my DNA, why not, just for argument’s sake! I never plan to visit China. How does this biometric sharing affect me, my rights, my safet…

The problem with a totally separate government having your data, is that they are not bound by your government's laws. What prevents a foreign government from selling your data to private entities, which then resell these data to criminals? Or, a more likely scenario, said foreign government isn't as careful about vetting who has access to that kind of data (because they don't have the GDPR there), leading to criminals from your own country getting access to it?

That is: even if you never plan to visit the remote country in question, the data can come back to your country (or a third country you might want to visit). And it might not even get there intact: what happens if your fingerprints get mislabeled as someone else's?

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#140

Post by frankfrankfrank »

Are there any folks here to whom it is starting to dawn what is really going on here; a transatlantic prison planet where you can do nothing without your prison wardens, formerly known as politicians, bureaucrats, and generally awful people knowing more about you than you do and being able to terrorize and torment you if you oppose or inconvenience them?
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