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US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

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Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#41

Post by mach1ne »

ryandrake wrote: post #30
jylam wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even your own government institutions, it's another totally separate government asking for your biometric data.

Disclaimer: I’m totally against any normalization of the collection/sharing of biometric data. But just to play Devil’s Advocate: Let’s say I’m a boring white midwestern HVAC contractor with a mortgage and 2.5 kids. Big Bad China acquires a picture of my face and my fingerprints. Also my DNA, why not, just for argument’s sake! I never plan to visit China. How does this biometric sharing affect me, my rights, my safet…

Write some anti-CCP stuff on social media, become randomly targeted by China's "Magic Methods". Whole lot easier when they have your biometric data.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#43

Post by Msurrow »

bilekas wrote: post #11
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Am I the only one that doesn't really consider "fingerprints and facial images" to be biometric data? When I think "biometric", I think hair samples, DNA, blood type, even though I know fingerprints and eye color are technically biometric.

Its easier for someone to obtain and identify your DNA than it is your fingertips or even your face. Just think of how much you leave around all the time. If that's all on records with facial images, your face is certainly an identifiable metric of your biology.

Obtain perhaps, but identify no. Identification requires a database of samples to match against. Way more FP and FI databases than DNA databases, so not much to use as a gallery for identification..

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#44

Post by exitheone »

nixgeek wrote: post #21

Probably the most interesting part of this is if states don’t integrate by 2027 they will no longer be eligible for the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). That adds a lot of friction for citizens of that state to travel to the U.S. for any reason.

As a regular US traveler, I'm ok with that if the alternative is handing over EU citizens data to a known bad actor.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#45

Post by nixgeek »

prottog wrote: post #12
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #3

I think it is vital we continue to discuss it here, but at the same time my conversations with my extended family show that people overall do not share my concerns over these at all. I do not get upset, because coming from a former soviet union country, I am trying hard to understand their frame of mind ( partially to see if there is a way to counter it ) and lot of it seems to a result from a deep trust in the syste…

I very much share your concern and frustration, but even I take convenience over principle in some matters. I happily use TSA PreCheck, despite hating the fact that you have to put yourself on a government list to restore a level of dignity while traveling that the same government took away in the first place. It's a constant struggle with a lot to sacrifice for your principles. See Richard Stallman for an example of…

Global Entry and TSA Pre probably saved me >100 hours of queuing in the last 3-5 years, and I imagine I’d also have missed a handful of flights had I needed to endure the regular checkpoint queues in order to make a tight connection.

It’s definitely a concern for me too, but like you, convenience trumps principle sometimes and travel is already unpleasant enough that “taking a stand” and making travel more unpleasant (including being an “Opt Out” at checkpoints and making the TSA do a pat down) isn’t something I’ve been willing to do.

Likewise, this will become a mandatory integration for states to participate in VWP starting in 2027, and there is a LOT of additional burden for those states citizens in having to apply for and be granted a U.S. visa over and above just using ESTA - paperwork, >= 10x filing fees, an Embassy or Consulate visit, then getting your passport (collection) after the visa has been inserted. Plus at the end of the day the U.S. is getting all the same information via the slower process.

I would guess most European states will integrate and this will be short-lived indignation (a “storm in a teacup”) followed by it being the new normal.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#46

Post by [deleted] »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #27
lizardactivist wrote: post #8

Say no and hang up. If they start something, respond in kind, and ask our allied countries to stand united. The US needs the world far, far more than the world needs the US, and it's time the world realizes this. Forcing this nation of war-criminals and foreign policy bullies in line is long overdue.

It is possible that you are missing a developing new axis of powers forming, which is part of the reason why those policies are slowly being implemented. As a globe, we are being divided into spheres of influence and US/EU happens to be one of those.

[deleted]

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#47

Post by jeltz »

bodhiandphysics wrote: post #29
jacquesm wrote: post #28

I sincerely hope that the EU will give the appropriate but unprintable response to this request. At the time the biometric data was first collected plenty of people warned about this exact thing and we were repeatedly assured that it would never happen. Let's see if that is still true today. Never is such a long time...

[flagged]

Sure, why not? If the US wants to go isolationist I say we should let them.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#48

Post by jacquesm »

bodhiandphysics wrote: post #29
jacquesm wrote: post #28

I sincerely hope that the EU will give the appropriate but unprintable response to this request. At the time the biometric data was first collected plenty of people warned about this exact thing and we were repeatedly assured that it would never happen. Let's see if that is still true today. Never is such a long time...

[flagged]

I haven't been back there since 2007 and have no intention to ever go back there. I missed a couple of funerals of friends because of that but the typical 'welcome' (I use the term loosely) afforded by DHS to visitors to the USA has persuaded me that I have better things to do with my life.

The decision not to re-visit was made somewhere between the point where my shoes were confiscated because they might be used as weapons and the time when I spent 6 hours on a bridge trying to get into Canada because they could not imagine a person carrying a Dutch passport had a legitimate interest in crossing the border into Canada.

At one point I had a company in the US, spent a ton of money there annually and was seriously considering immigration, go figure.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#49

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

bodhiandphysics wrote: post #29
jacquesm wrote: post #28

I sincerely hope that the EU will give the appropriate but unprintable response to this request. At the time the biometric data was first collected plenty of people warned about this exact thing and we were repeatedly assured that it would never happen. Let's see if that is still true today. Never is such a long time...

[flagged]

> So... you want to spend six months waiting for a US visa?

Whoever said I wanted to visit the US?

Not just "no", but "hell no".

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#50

Post by golem14 »

Maybe have travellers sign away their biometric data as part of the visa waiver? Then the EU can claim not to be beholden to the US (the travellers are) and the US still gets data of travellers.

The demand is for travellers only according the pdf, not for all EU citizens.

This does not seem too onerous - people working in the US from EU already have to submit to much fingerprinting, AIDS tests and what not, and you don't hear much complaining about it.

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