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Moving the Ctrl Key

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Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#111

Post by rrgok »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #49
BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

Your comment assumes everybody is using a "normal" keyboard. Since then a great many have come up with actually ergonomic keyboards and they virtually all have something in common: modifiers easily reached with the thumbs while the hands are in their home position. No crazy "moving the entire left hand to not hit ctrl with the pinky" . That's not ergonomic. At all. If the layout is QWERTY, left hand on asdf, right an…

Mhm interested in knowing about Japanese Keyboard. Do you mind sharing what keyboard and setup are you using?

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#112

Post by adrian_b »

wnolens wrote: post #81
rgoulter wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Caps lock is such a dumb key It's convenient to have a mode for typing in caps for stuff like "MAX_NUM_WORKERS". -- Especially if you're using Shift on the opposite hand from the letters you're typing, rather than just stretching to hold down shift the entire time. But, the standard keyboard design isn't a very practical one. -- I think Caps Lock is better placed behind a Fn key, in the same way that "brightness up…

If I wanted to be clever, I'd use software to detect a quick double-tap of shift to be caps lock. Nowadays I have convenient access to it via a mod-key on a programmable keyboard, but still don't use it. Holding shift seems to feel totally fine for my hand geometry, it's the extra distance to CTRL for my pinky (without shifting my forearm down) that gives me wrist pain.

One of the standard X Window xkb options is to obtain CapsLock by pressing both shift keys, freeing the original CapsLock key for other uses.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#113

Post by TacticalCoder »

rrgok wrote: post #111
TacticalCoder wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment assumes everybody is using a "normal" keyboard. Since then a great many have come up with actually ergonomic keyboards and they virtually all have something in common: modifiers easily reached with the thumbs while the hands are in their home position. No crazy "moving the entire left hand to not hit ctrl with the pinky" . That's not ergonomic. At all. If the layout is QWERTY, left hand on asdf, right an…

Mhm interested in knowing about Japanese Keyboard. Do you mind sharing what keyboard and setup are you using?

Of course... I'm using a japanese Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro JP (HHKB Pro JP). The HHKB is kinda famous for its Topre switches: I'm just using the japanese variant. They're kinda pricey as far as keyboards but the price is okay'ish if you buy them directly in Japan.

Before using a japanese HHKB Pro JP I was using a reqular US QWERTY HHKB Pro 2. But then I figured out a narrower spacebar and more modifiers would suit me best. The big enter key on the HHKB Pro JP may not be for everyone that said.

As for the setup, I don't have a public Github page with my config (I use Git but with bare git repos on my own servers) and it's actually going to depend on how you did configure the DIP switches on the HHKB Pro JP (it's got 6 dip switches IIRC) but it's nothing out of the ordinary.

I'll just throw random infos that may get you started if you go this route...

I'm on Linux so it's just one .xkb file which is mostly a modified QWERTY layout to add Hyper and Super modifiers. I had to mess up a bit with the japanese Henkan and Muhenkan modifiers keycodes IIRC.

As a sidenote I'll say that you probably can do everything from the .xkb file but xkb and xmodmap (to set up modifiers) aren't mutually exclusive.

In the .xbk file a "regular" key like, say, 'x' stays of the type ALPHABETIC but I modified i j k and l to be FOUR_ALPHA and they're then (example for 'i'):

    key  { type= "FOUR_ALPHA", symbols[Group1]= [ i, I, osfUp, osfUp ] };
where FOUR_ALPHA has "Hyper" in its short modifiers list.

I use Hyper for a lot of shortcuts (I configured Hyper to be the key at the left of the spacebar) but not for ijkl: Hyper+ijkl is used to send arrow keys code, always.

As for Super I use it only for my WM: so I configured one key to be Super in .xkb and then my WM (Awesome WM) only requires one line to be modified to tell it which modifier you want to use for shortcuts.

It's not complicated but it took me some time to set up everything: mostly because I had no idea how the .xkb file format was working and it certainly looks a bit alien.

I versioned my .xkb keymap files in Git and I experimented. I'm still under X so an xev window open to see the event (not sure how that works under Wayland) / keycodes sent, an editor to edit the .xkb file, commit changes as soon as good progress were made:

   xkbcomp mykeymappings.xkb $DISPLAY
To test the new settings. Rinse and repeat.

Once it's set up, it's set up for good.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#114

Post by comfypotato »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #49
BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

Your comment assumes everybody is using a "normal" keyboard. Since then a great many have come up with actually ergonomic keyboards and they virtually all have something in common: modifiers easily reached with the thumbs while the hands are in their home position. No crazy "moving the entire left hand to not hit ctrl with the pinky" . That's not ergonomic. At all. If the layout is QWERTY, left hand on asdf, right an…

Quick shout out to dual function keys on the home row via QMK or other. The concept changed my life. Modifier on hold, letter on tap. 3-modifier strokes are trivial, and this takes Emacs in a friendly direction.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#115

Post by chillfox »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #65
chillfox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are small bumps on the F and J keys so that you can feel when you are correctly on the home row.

Yes, but then you need to bring your hands back to the correct position, and you’re lifting it off the keyboard. Which means you will likely be fumbling till you feel the bumps correctly. With Vim and Caps Lock mapped to Ctrl & Esc I never have to completely leave the home row.

Can't say I have ever needed to fumble to find them, my fingers just land on them.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#116

Post by wrs »

sph wrote: post #103
wrs wrote: post #9

Tip for vi users on Mac: get Karabiner-Elements and use the “complex modifier” that makes the Caps Lock key into ESC when you just press it, but Control when you use it with another key.

I didn't like that option, because I found I tend to hold Ctrl to do some action (maybe copy text from some panel), and if I change my mind and release it, the ESC might close the window I'm looking at. It's happened more than once with Chrome's Inspector or in the shell. It would be even worse with Emacs in terminal mode, where ESC is a prefix key.

You can limit the remapping to certain applications, in my case Emacs, IntelliJ, and VS Code. Doesn't help if you want to run the editor in a terminal, though.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#117

Post by patrec »

ziml77 wrote: post #68
patrec wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this allow overloading capslocks to both control (as modifier) and esc (when pressed in isolation)?

I don't know how people put escape there. For me it's a common key to accidentally press. I don't want to accidentally be pressing escape and closing out of dialogs and whatnot. On my desktop keyboard I've actually mapped the caps lock key to F13, which I only ever use for activating push-to-talk since it's easy enough to reach and an accidental tap doesn't really matter since it would only transmit for a fraction of…

Well, I take it you are not a vim user? :) There is no other reason to put Escape there. If I didn't use vim, I'd use the CapsLock key just for Control and not also for Escape.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#118

Post by Ferret7446 »

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #63
Ferret7446 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the default key mappings make it an RSI machine. Citation needed. Even the poster child for that rumor, RMS, fixed his problem by switching to a better keyboard.

I'm describing my experience. Feel free to live according to yours if it differs. Also, in jest: citation needed on the RMS claim. We can all play that game ad absurdium :)

https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html

> In the mid 90s I had bad hand pain, so bad that most of the day I could only type with one finger. The FSF hired typists for me part of the day, and part of the day I tolerated the pain. After a few years I found out that the pain was due to the hard keys of my keyboard. I switched to a keyboard with lighter key pressure and the problem mostly went away.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#119

Post by b5n »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #42
BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

The only way to hit the ctrl key ergonomically with either hand is by lifting your hand from the home row. But that makes touch typing ridiculously hard. It is extremely easy to fail to return your hand correctly to the home row and now everything you type will be off.

> The only way to hit the ctrl key ergonomically

I just just use the side of my palm (top of fifth metacarpal) to engage C.

Super comfortable, low effort, no leaving the home row.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#120

Post by b5n »

I have a fairly extensive emacs config, and for the most part I am still using the default keybinds. I find the readline bindings to be ergonomic and easy to use.

Assuming average case, most of the complaints in this thread can be solved by using the side of the palm (top of fifth metacarpal) to engage C. Requires no remaps, doesn't take long to get used to, is totally comfortable, and leaves you on the home row.

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