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Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

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Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#51

Post by erenyeager »

chongli wrote: post #50
KunafaPizza wrote: post #42

Seeing a lot of people here saying wearing hijab is a free-choice in Islam. As a Muslim this is totally wrong. Religion is not just "I believe in God" and now I can do whatever I want. There are rules and regulations that must be followed in private and public life. This is how Islam has always worked. Traditionally, the Islamic government legislates and enjoins these rules upon the people. Hijab is one of those rule…

A woman was killed by the morality police for not wearing her hijab. Where in the Koran does it say that the punishment for not wearing the hijab is death? The reason women are protesting in Iran is not because they hate Islam. They’re protesting against an unaccountable and corrupt dictatorship which acts only in its own interests, not in the interest of upholding a fair and just Islamic society.

I thought it’s not clear how she died… it’s really muddled. Clearly Iran leadership has many problems but maybe this is more a powder keg… anyways if you saw videos of Iran you’d see hijab rules were usually lenient at least in urban places it seemed.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#53

Post by erenyeager »

dvngnt_ wrote: post #47
erenyeager wrote: post #44

[flagged]

they have the freedom to do so. not all women have a choice

It’s interesting when we discuss the concept of freedom, if u look I think some enlightenment thinkers considered freedom in terms of freedom from base desires and vulgarity, to liberate man into higher thought. Then there are also concepts of public/private.

From this regard, is not it freedom to have society less restrained by basal desires and the widespread practice of modesty makes it easier to be private with regard to exposing one’s body?

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#54

Post by unixbotnuke »

sorenjan wrote: post #43
KunafaPizza wrote: post #42

Seeing a lot of people here saying wearing hijab is a free-choice in Islam. As a Muslim this is totally wrong. Religion is not just "I believe in God" and now I can do whatever I want. There are rules and regulations that must be followed in private and public life. This is how Islam has always worked. Traditionally, the Islamic government legislates and enjoins these rules upon the people. Hijab is one of those rule…

What kind of dress codes are there for muslim men? I regularly see muslim immigrant families in the summer where the man wears shorts and no shirt, and the woman wears a long black fully covering fabric. And young daughters maybe six years old with hijab.

Yeah this is stupid and blatantly sexist. Used to live by a lot of Muslim immigrants and the boys had no covering but then you have 6yo girls that are covered head to toe.

Just guessing but that is going to mess with kids body-image and cause lots of psychological problems in the future.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#55

Post by [deleted] »

KunafaPizza wrote: post #42

Seeing a lot of people here saying wearing hijab is a free-choice in Islam. As a Muslim this is totally wrong. Religion is not just "I believe in God" and now I can do whatever I want. There are rules and regulations that must be followed in private and public life. This is how Islam has always worked. Traditionally, the Islamic government legislates and enjoins these rules upon the people. Hijab is one of those rule…

[deleted]

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#56

Post by kbelder »

esperent wrote: post #12
t3rra wrote: post #2

And yet muslim people on facebook say that hijab is by free will..

Is this an example of a dog whistle? Unspecified "Muslim people on Facebook" say something you are almost certain to disagree with. No examples, no nuance, just a call to racism.

I have never, ever, seen a good comment that includes an accusation of a dog-whistle.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#57

Post by kbelder »

erenyeager wrote: post #53
dvngnt_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they have the freedom to do so. not all women have a choice

It’s interesting when we discuss the concept of freedom, if u look I think some enlightenment thinkers considered freedom in terms of freedom from base desires and vulgarity, to liberate man into higher thought. Then there are also concepts of public/private. From this regard, is not it freedom to have society less restrained by basal desires and the widespread practice of modesty makes it easier to be private with r…

>From this regard, is not it freedom to have society less restrained by basal desires and the widespread practice of modesty makes it easier to be private with regard to exposing one’s body?

No, it's not. That's a primitive manner of thought that we have hopefully progressed from over the last couple centuries. Freedom is individual choice, not an imposition from another person.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#58

Post by rayiner »

unixbotnuke wrote: post #54
sorenjan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of dress codes are there for muslim men? I regularly see muslim immigrant families in the summer where the man wears shorts and no shirt, and the woman wears a long black fully covering fabric. And young daughters maybe six years old with hijab.

Yeah this is stupid and blatantly sexist. Used to live by a lot of Muslim immigrants and the boys had no covering but then you have 6yo girls that are covered head to toe. Just guessing but that is going to mess with kids body-image and cause lots of psychological problems in the future.

I am not defending hijab, but your point about “body image” and “psychological problems” sounds odd to me. It seems to me that westerners, especially women, have way more body image issues than people in my Muslim home country. I don’t know if it’s the revealing clothing or the worship of youth. But it seems disingenuous to complain that someone else’s culture is going to cause body image issues when in your culture people in their 40s are dieting and hitting the gym striving to look like they’re in their 20s.

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#59

Post by erenyeager »

kbelder wrote: post #57
erenyeager wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting when we discuss the concept of freedom, if u look I think some enlightenment thinkers considered freedom in terms of freedom from base desires and vulgarity, to liberate man into higher thought. Then there are also concepts of public/private. From this regard, is not it freedom to have society less restrained by basal desires and the widespread practice of modesty makes it easier to be private with r…

>From this regard, is not it freedom to have society less restrained by basal desires and the widespread practice of modesty makes it easier to be private with regard to exposing one’s body? No, it's not. That's a primitive manner of thought that we have hopefully progressed from over the last couple centuries. Freedom is individual choice, not an imposition from another person.

Is there truly freedom? This is a deep question beyond patronizing insults about primitiveness. What freedom is there truly, when humans are so prone to influences that would seem to chain them.

What freedom is there if one becomes addicted to some substance, for example? What freedom is there in being distracted from one’s purpose and higher rational aims due to being in a temptous environment?

I think you will not find “freedom” has much value if it is trapped in loops of dopamine

Re: Iranian women compete at chess tournament without hijab: media reports

#60

Post by erenyeager »

u801e wrote: post #48
KunafaPizza wrote: post #42

Seeing a lot of people here saying wearing hijab is a free-choice in Islam. As a Muslim this is totally wrong. Religion is not just "I believe in God" and now I can do whatever I want. There are rules and regulations that must be followed in private and public life. This is how Islam has always worked. Traditionally, the Islamic government legislates and enjoins these rules upon the people. Hijab is one of those rule…

As another Muslim, my view is that clothing that attracts attention of others doesn't fulfill the purpose of hijab. So, if you're the only one wearing a head covering, people are going to pay unnecessary attention to you. The same applies if you're the only one not wearing one. Basically, as long as you're not dressing in a way that attracts attention to yourself, then you're fulfilling the purpose of hijab.

This is against the orthodox Islamic interpretations if you’re saying that a free woman can uncover her hair in public if that’s the social norm. It is quite well known what the limits of awrah are (the parts that need to be covered). If everyone is wearing bikinis, it doesn’t make bikinis permissible.

So if this is only your opinion, it is not an opinion based in sound evidence, or at least please bring some to support it.

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