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How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

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Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#761

Post by AlchemistCamp »

code_runner wrote: post #718
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Taiwan (and also was for the first SARS), and I think the messaging here was much more competent but also more humble and less aggressive than much of the rest of the world’s. To be fair though, the VP was an epidemiologist, so there was an unfair advantage.

In America we were already in such a weird situation I doubt anything would’ve truly been 100% effective. It’s interesting to hear these different perspectives though

To be clear, I think that lockdowns are a gross affront to civil liberties and unjustified for anything under a 10 (and probably even) 20 percent lethality rate.

My opinion at the time (when vaccines looked very distant) was that places like Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and Korea could still control the pandemic via border quarantines and contact tracing (which happened) and that places like the US also could also achieve good results via mass testing (which didn’t happen).

It would have taken about a billion tests per week, but the US certainly had the industrial capacity do it. The problem, IMO, was lack of state capacity. Even as the pandemic spread around the world, the FDA continued processing applications for PPE producers, vaccines and everything else at the same sluggish rate (of a 6+ months delay) that it had been.

Tyler Cowen spoke at length about this on various economics and other podcasts.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#762

Post by wonderwonder »

worksonmine wrote: post #731
yehosef wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry- it was sarcasm - I'll try to remember to put a next time.

Usually I would've expected so, and I even considered including it in my answer. But the last 2 years has made me question humanity too many times. It's a shame.

It really has gotten weird out there. With the rise of Q and Q like groups on the right and the insanity of the far left; even the most out there theories have a set of adherents.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#763

Post by CamperBob2 »

foota wrote: post #275
mikeyouse wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another excellent example of retconning. Who specifically was censored for saying that?

I don't know about censored, but from what I remember there was a bit of an about face on masking. This timeline seems to mesh with what I remember: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-07-27/timeline-cd... And I think some platforms (specifically, I believe YouTube and Twitter, but maybe others) prevented or de-funded etc., content that was contradictory to CDC guidelines.

Some lies are necessary. Put yourself in the shoes of a public health official. You just got home from shopping for groceries, and the whole toilet paper aisle was empty. You know very well that the same thing will happen with masks and other PPE needed by medical personnel if you tell the truth, and that this will likely result in an even-higher death toll. What do you do?

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#764

Post by maxerickson »

ethanbond wrote: post #636
kevinmrose wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if we can call it outright lying, but going from "you don't need a mask" to basically saying you shouldn't be allowed in public without one seems like either incompetence or corruption on the CDC's part. You can argue semantics all you want to try to justify their behavior, but that is what people see and it doesn't increase trust or confidence in them as an organization.

Yes, people see that because they think authority figures have some Magic Answer Box that they’re pulling or withholding answers from, rather than the reality which is that our understanding of the situation was shifting day by day. The Magic Answer Box people are demanding that they be trusted with nuance and detail and yet continuously demonstrate Magic Answer Box thinking in the face of nuanced and detailed inform…

We also went from a few hundred identified cases per day in February to ~25,000 per day identified in late March/April.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#765

Post by ajvs »

Klinky wrote: post #700
ajvs wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Misinformation is spread on platforms such as Twitter, so it made sense for the government to communicate with Twitter and let them know what it considered to be a good course of action This part I disagree with, because what is misinformation is unknownable before serious scientific study is done. It just makes the government look untrustworthy if they flip-flop from "masks are pointless" to "masks are essential"…

Com'on, someone linking to a poorly done study claiming it proves "drug x cures COVID" isn't misinformation? Someone posting about 5G or Bill Gates being the source of the infection isn't misinformation? Someone going on some racist tirade about Chinese people isn't misinformed hate speech? You think we should just allow every crackpot theory or idea until scientifically proven inaccurate? Plenty of people were tryin…

> You think we should just allow every crackpot theory or idea until scientifically proven inaccurate?

Yes, otherwise what happens when the ruling party is no longer your team?

What if everything becomes inverted, so if you tried to say Bill Gates isn't one of the biggest beneficiaries of COVID then you get "visibility filtered" AKA shadowbanned?

Then you make a detailed explanation about how the story of the Wuhan lab having had a virus leak was all just a hoax, but oops that is a final strike and now you're banned?

The bar for censorship shouldn't be so low and arbitrary. Social media platforms should exist to help us change our minds by discussing and debating with others (like we are doing right here), not be all echo chambers and filter bubbles.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#766

Post by kodah »

BryantD wrote: post #674
causi wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There WAS a LOT of misinformation about covid, and a lot of it could cause real harm. Quite true. Thing is, there wasn't that much of it before the CDC spent over a month spewing bullshit telling people not to wear masks because masks don't stop the spread of COVID. It was obvious to everyone and their dog that masks help stop the spread of respiratory infections. That irrevocably shattered a whole lot of people's fa…

It’s wild how we’ve completely forgotten the fomite hypothesis that was assumed for the first couple of months of the pandemic. Remember the guy who wanted us to bleach our vegetables? Remember all the distilleries making hand sanitizer because touch was the only thing that mattered? You don’t have to assume the CDC was full of lies if you remember that they were working from an inaccurate hypothesis at a time when r…

It wasn't a bad thesis, that would be giving them credit they don't deserve: https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8...

Dr Fauci feared the rising costs of masks and whether the medical system would have enough. That wasn't his decision to make, but he made it. He later started using a new line, which is that they weren't aware that 40-50% of people were asymptomatic which was irrelevant for the problem at hand.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#767

Post by kodah »

themitigating wrote: post #665
causi wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There WAS a LOT of misinformation about covid, and a lot of it could cause real harm. Quite true. Thing is, there wasn't that much of it before the CDC spent over a month spewing bullshit telling people not to wear masks because masks don't stop the spread of COVID. It was obvious to everyone and their dog that masks help stop the spread of respiratory infections. That irrevocably shattered a whole lot of people's fa…

"CDC spent over a month spewing bullshit telling people not to wear masks because masks don't stop the spread of COVID." Can you provide the source for this?

https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8...

They've used two different narratives at two far apart times that CNN highlights quite well.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#768

Post by notacoward »

Nursie wrote: post #516
jakear wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You’re doing exactly what I said, exaggerating and twisting to claim victories where there are none. That Fauci email says that masks are primarily to prevent infected people from spreading disease, and a lot of crappy masks are unlikely to do much but prevent some droplets. This was before a lot of the studies were in that showed there was some effect. People can be wrong early on, this is expected. Later on when th…

> saying “dangers of remote schooling” is unnecessarily hyperbolic

Also this: teen suicides went down for the first time in ages during the pandemic, and has rebounded since.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w30795

Remote-only schooling might have been negative overall, especially for the younger ones, but it's more nuanced than all good vs. all bad. There are better and worse ways to run in-person schooling. There are better and worse ways to run remote schooling. There are positive and negative effects beyond the schools themselves. There are financial and other demands on parents to consider. There are even climate-change considerations. "Dangers of remote schooling" is a shibboleth, not an argument.

P.S. Thank you @Nursie for taking the time to go point by point. Much appreciated.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#769

Post by slg »

evandale wrote: post #701
slg wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again, there was already hoarding. This would have led to even more hoarding which would have led to even more deaths. Maybe it is just that I started this ordeal in a more cynical place than others, but this one example of the CDC not telling the full truth is not some earth-shattering revelation to me. The government has lied to us countless times. I assume they will continue to lie to us in the future. At lea…

You can't say with 100% certainty people would have hoarded if they were told to save N95s for high risk people and use surgical masks for grocery store runs because they provided adequate protection in that environment. I can tell you with 100% certainty that not everyone was as cynical as yourself, trusted the government, and as a result of these lies will be more cynical than you originally were. The lies did imme…

Once again I feel like the only one who remembers what it was actually like in the early pandemic. People were already hoarding. That included masks, hand sanitizer, disinfecting wipes, and stuff that wasn't even related to COVID prevention like toilet paper.

I don't understand how you can say hoarding might not have been any worse if the CDC revealed how important masks were to safety unless you believe that no one was listening to the CDC anyway which invalidates your entire point.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#770

Post by slg »

evandale wrote: post #703
slg wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is confiscating privately owned safety equipment the more democratic and libertarian approach than trying to convince people they shouldn't buy that equipment in the first place? That seems way more dystopian to me.

Yes, confiscating privately owned equipment and telling people you need them in hospitals is better than lying to people and telling them their equipment doesn't work because secretly they need them for hospitals. I don't know why you think that's more dystopian.

The government coming to my home and demanding I hand over my private property that the government tells me is vital for protecting my health during a pandemic is pretty dystopian. If you believe that the government lying to us is dystopian, then we have always lived in a dystopia.
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