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How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

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Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#721

Post by horns4lyfe »

bgro wrote: post #424

There’s apparently a lot of people upset about Twitter for trying to manage misinformation. I’d like to see equal information leaked from Fox for comparison, who should have journalistic integrity since they’re a news company. It seems weird to me that Twitter is the only one people seem to be up in arms about, and not the times the US president did things like suggest to the public, on live national tv, that consumi…

You don’t think people are up in arms about Trump or Fox News? We live in very different realities. Also, you’re comparing apples to oranges here.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#722

Post by yehosef »

wonderwonder wrote: post #698
samhuk wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Candidate for worst take in 2022? Could you elaborate into what is noble about censoring the discussion about the safety of covid-related mitigations by official, recognised scientists?

I think he is being sarcastic. I think...

yes - search "noble lie" covid and you'll understand the reference.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#723

Post by BryantD »

leereeves wrote: post #716
BryantD wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immediately prior to Trump’s remarks, Bill Bryan said: “‘We tested bleach,’ he said at one point. ‘I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes.’” Trump followed this with: “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning.” So to be completely fair, Trump suggested that injecti…

> is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. That's a question. A statement would begin with "there is". It's embarrassing that people are mischaracterizing his remarks based on a bad transcription.

[flagged]

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#724

Post by wonderwonder »

philjohn wrote: post #512
shaky-carrousel wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about telling people the truth, that there were no masks for everyone and they had to prioritize first responders? Treat people like adults and they will behave like adults. Treat them like kids and they'll behave like kids. Also, once you know you have been lied to, the trust is shattered, whatever the excuses. How people is going to trust again the CDC, knowing that it lied before?

Because large groups of people have shown, time and again, they don't act rationally. Look at toilet paper - one rumour that it would run out, despite shops, the government, everyone, saying there is more than enough and the rabble went out and hoarded.

And it ran out. Did you go buy toilet paper when there was a run on it? If not, did you run out of toilet paper? Stores around me were empty for weeks. You can argue that they were empty because of the run on toilet paper but that is of small comfort when you are sitting at home and your family is having weekly votes to decide their least favorite of their dwindling paperback novels. I bought a few cases of it as soon as I heard the first rumor of supplies being low. You may call me part of the rabble but my family was taken care of.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#725

Post by worksonmine »

yehosef wrote: post #650
wonderwonder wrote: post #642

Main thing this article seems to illustrate is that the federal government was blatantly violating the 1st amendment to silence viewpoints counter to it's own. I really don't care what a private platform does, the actions of the government far outweigh anything Twitter did in this case.

but it was a "noble lie" for the interest of the public. I think those are allowed.

This is such an interesting view. I understand this as you accept being taken for an idiot, if it's in your interest. And you accept that the person making that decision has your interest in mind. Do I understand you correctly?

Myself I prefer having all the facts and drawing my own conclusions, being able to ask questions and consider all options. I'm capable of it, and people in power are seldom there based on competence.

Edit: I see I fell for Poe's law. Thank god.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#726

Post by yehosef »

indoclay wrote: post #697
yehosef wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but it was a "noble lie" for the interest of the public. I think those are allowed.

What makes it noble and who gets to decide when the interest of the public good is sufficient to suspend the rights of the citizenry? If it is to be believed that most people lack the intelligence to behave in ways that are in their own and society’s best interest then what is the point of democracy? What other rights are we willing to suspend for the interest of the public? Even if it is justified in this instance,…

sorry - it was sarcasm. search "noble lie" and covid and you'll see the reference to Fauci.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#727

Post by BryantD »

kbelder wrote: post #428
BryantD wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the same people, though. RFK Jr. pivoted and incorporated anti-Covid vax rhetoric into the rest of his platform, and that’s bringing the anti-Covid vax conspiracists into the autism myth fold. And the existing anti-vax community fed into QAnon, as well documented by Marc-André Argentino[1]. This is the tricky problem. Trusting the marketplace of ideas works if everyone who participates is interested in spending…

It's not all the same people, though. Anti-vax nutjobs were primarily fringe leftists, through 2019. For a few reasons, Covid policy drew a ton of fringe right-wing nutjobs into the movement. In my experience, possibly the worst thing that was done was labeling people who argued against forced vaccination as anti-vaxxers, no matter whether they were against vaccines or not. That made a large number of reasonable peop…

I am not directing this at you personally, but:

Why do we have so much compassion for people arguing against forced vaccination, and yet so little compassion for people who were scared of an unknown disease and angry that people were pushing back against the best known way to slow or stop the spread?

Why is the burden of rationality on the latter group? Why don’t they get to be hostile?

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#728

Post by yehosef »

worksonmine wrote: post #725
yehosef wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but it was a "noble lie" for the interest of the public. I think those are allowed.

This is such an interesting view. I understand this as you accept being taken for an idiot, if it's in your interest. And you accept that the person making that decision has your interest in mind. Do I understand you correctly? Myself I prefer having all the facts and drawing my own conclusions, being able to ask questions and consider all options. I'm capable of it, and people in power are seldom there based on comp…

sorry- it was sarcasm - I'll try to remember to put a next time.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#729

Post by bee_rider »

arcticbull wrote: post #432
causi wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There WAS a LOT of misinformation about covid, and a lot of it could cause real harm. Quite true. Thing is, there wasn't that much of it before the CDC spent over a month spewing bullshit telling people not to wear masks because masks don't stop the spread of COVID. It was obvious to everyone and their dog that masks help stop the spread of respiratory infections. That irrevocably shattered a whole lot of people's fa…

> Thing is, there wasn't that much of it before the CDC spent over a month spewing bullshit telling people not to wear masks because masks don't stop the spread of COVID. They made it clear after the fact that this was done because there wasn't an adequate supply of masks for 330M people, and they needed to secure a supply for first responders. The job of the government is to make tough decisions like this in times o…

From your article:

> A better option, he says? Start with a two-layered cloth mask that has been washed, which gives it the capacity to filter better. If you want to go one step further in protection, use a KN95 mask, he says.

So it isn’t like the suggested option is some esoteric thing that you need a 3M factory to make. “Single layers cloth masks don’t work” isn’t technically a lie but it omits that there was an alternative solution that was within the means of like… anybody with a sewing machine and a washing machine to make.

Re: How Twitter moderated the Covid debate

#730

Post by brigandish »

jltsiren wrote: post #685
brigandish wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Japan still experienced large waves of infection of every variant, prior to reopening the borders to tourists and after reopening the borders (which only happened properly in the last couple of months). Possibly because the borders weren't really closed as "essential" travel by Japanese nationals among others occurred, and of course, trade. Much to the chagrin of far too many nationalists the sakoku [1] is a…

The details matter. Japan did not experience a major wave before the borders were reopened. The peaks were lower than in Europe and the US, and contact tracing never failed as badly. Contact tracing was the key tool, at least before omicron. If there were sufficient resources for it and compliance was high enough, local outbreaks could be kept under control. Contact tracing was also where international border closure…

> Japan did not experience a major wave before the borders were reopened. The peaks were lower than in Europe and the US, and contact tracing never failed as badly.

Japan's testing rate was described as "ultra-low … 0.2% of the population"[1][2], no one can claim to be able to compare the infection waves with any certainty, and there certainly were major waves[3]:

> Japan is reporting nearly 200,000 Covid-19 cases a day—more than any other country in the world currently

> The ongoing surge in cases—which is being referred to as Japan’s seventh Covid wave

That was a month after a tiny reopening of the border so unless there were 6 waves in a month, you're a tad off.

What there weren't were major numbers of deaths compared to some other places.

I can't share your faith in Japan's general response and contact tracing (after a number of high profile incidents[4][5], and this excellent and realistic article by the Diplomat[6] goes over many of the flaws, including poor contact tracing that wouldn't work anyway[7]) but I'm going to go with a reason much more obvious for the lack of deaths, especially given what we know now[8] - less obesity, and the old in Japan are far more active than I've seen in Europe. I can't speak for the US but we know the stereotypes.

Certainly, "closing" the borders did not do anything but impoverish people and cause trouble.

[1] https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/japans-contact-tracing-method-...

(that article is a bit presumptuous in its description, there was a long way to go at that point;)

[2] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-tests-per-thousand-...

[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2022/07/27/japan-i...

[4] https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-experts-admit-d...

[5] https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/05/japans_covid19_contac...

[6] https://thediplomat.com/2021/02/lack-of-transparency-complic...

[7] https://inference-review.com/article/on-the-futility-of-cont...

[8] https://www.npr.org/2022/12/23/1145170935/covid-19-exercise-...

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