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Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

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Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#21

Post by Chris2048 »

shyn3 wrote: post #17
birdymcbird wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can move towards management if you get the big picture and only code things you like. This is terrible advice. you hate X but somehow you can be successful in leading, motivating, mentoring, and developing people who do X all day. This is the cancer that infected big tech. A class of professional managers who provide little to no value but don’t want to leave because the grift is so easy.

Dudes a coder who doesn't want to sit at a box all day. I didn't go into programming because it just feels boring doing what he said. Management allows you to control what you want to work on. OP wants enjoyment. Control provides it. In fact OP would be the total opposite of normal management. I'd say your mentality is toxic. People who can't code can ideate. You don't need to know X to be able to lead X. Many progra…

> You don't need to know X to be able to lead X

I think the point is that you do.

> I'd sit on calls where nobody could figure it out. A business manager articulats the problem and it's solved in an hour

You'd have to define "thinking outside the box" - if you are suggesting that most programmers aren't creative I'd say you have no clue about most programmers. If its a call about a technical problem - no chance. But a random BA still isn't a tech manager.

Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#23

Post by shyn3 »

birdymcbird wrote: post #19
shyn3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dudes a coder who doesn't want to sit at a box all day. I didn't go into programming because it just feels boring doing what he said. Management allows you to control what you want to work on. OP wants enjoyment. Control provides it. In fact OP would be the total opposite of normal management. I'd say your mentality is toxic. People who can't code can ideate. You don't need to know X to be able to lead X. Many progra…

> Management allows you to control what you want to work on. OP wants enjoyment. Control provides it. Not true. You can set direction and vision only to the extent they align with your company and leaderships goals. If you fundamentally can’t stand what your subordinates do, I doubt you can successfully influence other leaders let alone be one yourself. Thinking that being a manager will give you “control” couldnt be…

You can replace that to say that mentality is toxic. Not an attack on you, just a way of conversation. Dialects and attitudes across the world differ. When I say you, in that context, I'm critiquing your claim, as I don't know you personally.

Your definition of control is different and conformist.

Management control their own destiny. Coder's don't in a business.

If your manager calls you have to answer. If you call them they can ignore it.

Your response is in the sense of the business growth. I'm speaking to your and your coworkers sanity.

I'm referring to having a job where you enjoy what you do. Your response suggests goals of fulfilling someone else's dreams which OP didn't suggest. He was referring to his own QOL.

Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#24

Post by sfpotter »

I think your appraisal is totally reasonable. I used to work as a software engineer. I really enjoy programming, but needed more variation in my day-to-day. I ended up deciding to get a PhD in computer science and am now doing a postdoc where I'm on the faculty of a math department, where I teach one course per semester. My time is split evenly between doing research (which is a mix of programming and working problems out with people on the board or on paper), teaching (which involves class prep, lecturing, grading, hosting office hours, etc.), and mentoring (advising undergrads and master's students on projects). I love that my day is more balanced now. I have way more energy for programming when I can choose to do it from between 0 and 8 hours a day.

This isn't to say that you would enjoy the same career, only that moving from programming to something "programming adjacent" was absolutely the right move for me. I make much less money, but my philosophy has always been that it's better to find a job that I'll be happy with in the long run instead of feeling the constant need to FIRE or something else.

One thing you should keep in mind is that as you advance in the industry, you shouldn't need to spend every day programming. You can move into management. But the job remains pretty sedentary.

I always thought becoming a nurse or a physician's assistant (PA) seemed interesting. (Or a doctor if you can handle the long-term commitment.) Depending on the type of unit you find yourself in, the work can be physically demanding. People who do this kind of work appreciate people who are timely, reliable, and orderly. They also especially appreciate people who are physically strong. The work can be demanding and interesting and pays well. There is a decent amount of socializing, but it doesn't have to be all the time.

Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#25

Post by shyn3 »

Chris2048 wrote: post #21
shyn3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dudes a coder who doesn't want to sit at a box all day. I didn't go into programming because it just feels boring doing what he said. Management allows you to control what you want to work on. OP wants enjoyment. Control provides it. In fact OP would be the total opposite of normal management. I'd say your mentality is toxic. People who can't code can ideate. You don't need to know X to be able to lead X. Many progra…

> You don't need to know X to be able to lead X I think the point is that you do. > I'd sit on calls where nobody could figure it out. A business manager articulats the problem and it's solved in an hour You'd have to define "thinking outside the box" - if you are suggesting that most programmers aren't creative I'd say you have no clue about most programmers. If its a call about a technical problem - no chance. But…

Toxic. Rethink this. I had this mentality and it hindered me significantly. Now I listen too the worst idea and I've grown personally and professionally more than ever.

Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#27

Post by viraptor »

> But sitting down, alone, in front of a computer screen all day every day is slowly driving me mad.

Without changing the industry completely, I know of two ways to make the experience more social:

- work from a coworking space (a smaller one where you actually get to know people and hang out) (edit, i assumed working from home, but that's probably not the case)

- Try sales engineer (or similar) positions - you still get to use the IT engineering skillset, but you become the interface to customers. A technical account manager is similar, but from support side.

Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#28

Post by jessekv »

I can't tell you what will work for you, but your question resonated with me. I can tell you where I am at. In my case I knew already in high school that CS came easy to me and would pay well. So naturally, I majored in... Civil Engineering. My immature little brain got something right and made me try something different (more concrete, if you will).

It was a detour that I am glad I took. Along the way I encountered so many cool areas of applied maths: control theory, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, finite element analysis, dispersion modelling, oceanography, the list goes on.

Ironically, these days, I'm still spending most days programming. But I am careful about what I work on.

First, the software is always a tool. People may use it to limit the impact of a flood, to warn each other about fires, or just to plan a fishing trip. I write software with real applications for the physical world, not just some self-serving engagement metric.

Second, I write software with an applied maths component. This is obviously a personal bias, but I like these sorts of problems. There are lots of smart people out there that are worth learning from. I am much happier at the end of the day if I have mastered some new concept in control theory than if I learn some new frontend framework. To each their own.

To summarise, I still write code, but I figured out what applications make me happy and motivated.

Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#29

Post by birdymcbird »

shyn3 wrote: post #25
Chris2048 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need to know X to be able to lead X I think the point is that you do. > I'd sit on calls where nobody could figure it out. A business manager articulats the problem and it's solved in an hour You'd have to define "thinking outside the box" - if you are suggesting that most programmers aren't creative I'd say you have no clue about most programmers. If its a call about a technical problem - no chance. But…

Toxic. Rethink this. I had this mentality and it hindered me significantly. Now I listen too the worst idea and I've grown personally and professionally more than ever.

> Toxic. Rethink this.

This is the second time someone disagrees with your view, provides a well written response, and you respond back with a personal attack.

I can try to steel man the other side of the argument, even though I disagree with it. nothing in your comment is a coherent, reasonable response to the op.

I’m not a gate keeper of this community but please share nuanced ideas to defend your view point. For the second time now, stop the personal attacks.

Re: Ask HN: I achieved my dream of being a self-taught dev. I hate it. Now what?

#30

Post by birdymcbird »

shyn3 wrote: post #23
birdymcbird wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Management allows you to control what you want to work on. OP wants enjoyment. Control provides it. Not true. You can set direction and vision only to the extent they align with your company and leaderships goals. If you fundamentally can’t stand what your subordinates do, I doubt you can successfully influence other leaders let alone be one yourself. Thinking that being a manager will give you “control” couldnt be…

You can replace that to say that mentality is toxic. Not an attack on you, just a way of conversation. Dialects and attitudes across the world differ. When I say you, in that context, I'm critiquing your claim, as I don't know you personally. Your definition of control is different and conformist. Management control their own destiny. Coder's don't in a business. If your manager calls you have to answer. If you call…

> Management control their own destiny. Coder's don't in a business.

Execs control destiny. Mid level managers can influence direction and provide a strategic and tactical vision on how to get there, but they have little control.

> If your manager calls you have to answer. If you call them they can ignore it.

”I’m not good at X so better to control people who do X because that somehow lets me have a better quality of life and people will have to bow to me.”

Hallmarks of an incompetent manager who is way in over their head. I question if I want this person as an IC, unless I can fit them into a role where they sit in a corner and can provide value while leaving everyone else alone. That attitude has potential to bring down an entire team.

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