Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

argusleader.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 405 posts

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#351

Post by selfmodruntime »

tootrueforhn wrote: post #319
robomartin wrote: post #233

[flagged]

Good take. The "help" especially native americans are getting strongly encourages them to become passive drunks. I consider the current official US treatment as a final middle finger to the once mighty and proud warrior people who are now not only destroyed but humiliated. For the folks getting uppity for the ugly truth: think about rewarding people for doing nothing and expecting good results. This extremely naive a…

Well, turns out forcibly removing native american property, land and riches and then relocating them has effects that can be felt even after generations. Who knew?

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#352

Post by selfmodruntime »

Kye wrote: post #289
citizenpaul wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>green recruit last in Nam scenario How is it any different where you came from? Once you become a teenager the gangs and predatory "adults" start closing in on you to either join/serve or be an outsider they abuse for amusement. I say this from similar situation as you but I was 16. Much easier since I could legally work in restaurants (which is what I did). I have no idea how you would make it without the ability t…

Where are they going to go where they won't be at a severe disadvantage due to racism and lack of both money and connections?

Anywhere else. You make it sound like racism is bad enough to keep them unemployed

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#353

Post by selfmodruntime »

jkepler wrote: post #240
katbyte wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone doesn’t have the money to stock pile some food and fuel do you think they can afford to move?

Bus fare, then a homeless shelter until you find work in your new city?

Places won’t employ you without an address. Homes won’t be rent to you without a job.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#354

Post by selfmodruntime »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #343
mynameishere wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If migration from Europe (and I suppose Africa) hadn't been unrelenting, then the natives would have gradually built up a modern-ish, defendable civilization. Maybe. It would have required some centralization of government as well, to prevent the divide-and-conquer tactics used against them.

Is that serious? Behind the technology curve is a massive understatement. They were thousands of years behind in nearly every area of development.

I wonder if the massive riches of nature they had for a low amount of people played a role in this

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#355

Post by rightbyte »

jcoder wrote: post #170
rightbyte wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think one should be angry at people that are wrong. I mean, unless he asked and someone told him he might have gone around thinking they choose to let the baby starve etc.

Astounded != angry does it?

Ye not directed directly at GP. I tried to whine about downvotes without writing the d-word.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#356

Post by thinking4real »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #160
Ntrails wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> genetic-exacerbated substance abuse Could you expand on this a bit? Not a concept I am familiar with

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_Native_Americans#G... Alcoholism rates among Native Americans is higher than most groups, which leads some to suspect a genetic reason. Currently, there isn't a ton of evidence supporting that idea.

It’s false to say there isn’t data and pier reviewed studies on the subject. The link is clear.

However, there’s a lot of propaganda that will pretend otherwise.

https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh301/3-4.htm

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#357

Post by vkou »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #60
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? It's a real big mystery isn't it.

>Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? This sounds very much like "racism of low expectations". "These people" are just as self-sufficient as any other group of modern people of similar socioeconomic background. It's been 100+ years since they were mistreated in any serious fashion. I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were se…

> It's been 100+ years since they were mistreated in any serious fashion.

The last residential school (Where native children would be kidnapped into, to have the Indian, quite literally, beaten out of them) in Canada closed in 1998.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#358

Post by vkou »

fencepost wrote: post #163
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? This sounds very much like "racism of low expectations". "These people" are just as self-sufficient as any other group of modern people of similar socioeconomic background. It's been 100+ years since they were mistreated in any serious fashion. I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were se…

I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were serfs, only a rung or two above chattel slaves on the ladder of human condition. 50 years ago a lot of their descendants in the Eastern Bloc countries were probably still in that condition or in the USSR factory worker equivalent.

It's true that university-educated intellectuals who have fled Eastern Europe after communism ended have, as a social class, done fairly well for themselves, but have you ever visited the... Less cosmopolitan parts of the former USSR?

It's not quite life-on-the-reservation out there, but it's not far from it.

They were never any good, and as soon as the planned economy stopped pouring money and work/busy-work into those areas, they all went straight to shit.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#359

Post by mikrotikker »

citizenpaul wrote: post #239
itsagavin wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can answer this as a dude that started off life at 11 homeless and went from there. Live in unquestionable poverty along with your support network of $4000 a year earners? Or take a bus to any random American city and get ready for your how many days can a green recruit last in Nam scenario?

>green recruit last in Nam scenario How is it any different where you came from? Once you become a teenager the gangs and predatory "adults" start closing in on you to either join/serve or be an outsider they abuse for amusement. I say this from similar situation as you but I was 16. Much easier since I could legally work in restaurants (which is what I did). I have no idea how you would make it without the ability t…

What about doing the opposite and going back to how they lived years ago, hunting and fishing, traditional housing.

I'm guessing however that the reservation was put in the most disadvantaged place for doing such traditional activities. A prarie is useless without it's bison. And bison are probably a protected species.

Many would call that poverty or subsistence but many long for it. It may be romanticised but it seems like the essence of life. Heimo Korth (?) In Alaska been doing it for 40 odd years.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#360

Post by Nomentatus »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #160
Ntrails wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> genetic-exacerbated substance abuse Could you expand on this a bit? Not a concept I am familiar with

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_Native_Americans#G... Alcoholism rates among Native Americans is higher than most groups, which leads some to suspect a genetic reason. Currently, there isn't a ton of evidence supporting that idea.

Summary - and interpretation - from memory of a lot of reading:

Background: Humans are highly unusual amongst mammals; our livers are more than ten thousand times IIRC better at burning off alcohol than any other known mammal, and this is a rather recent change evolutionarily. This may have been necessary to survive off old winter fruit during the ice age that just about took us out (reduced our population down to low genetic variation.)

Alcohol, in common with all other organic solvents save water, changes every single chemical reaction within our cells at least a little bit - esp the speed and frequency of given reactions. (Hence the cancer risk, etc, etc.) The change to neurotransitter reactions is just one of those changes, but one we find pleasing and distracting. Some genes protective re alcohol consumption reduce the effects/pleasure alcohol brings. Others may reduce habituation (so dose doesn't tend to increase.) Etc. My genes adapt me so quickly to alcohol that habituation/dosage escalates FAST. I and my relatives famously just shouldn't start since alcoholism is a quick result if we keep drinking.

Cultures which have cultivated alcohol for thousands of years (Asia) are less vulnerable to alcoholism; no doubt those kinda genes were culled sometime back. Europeans less so, less protected. Central American native populations cultivated alcohol but (at least in some cultures) restricted its use to the elderly. North American natives, not to my knowlege.

Selecting strongly for alcohol resistance has costs, off course, there are always tradeoffs. And where evolutionary selection has acted very strongly over a short period of time, the tradeoffs (downsides) can be extreme (particularly from copy-number variations, which are common under heavy/fast selection.)

If you're going to be a teetotaller anyway, you'd prefer to have Native genes on average (other confounding variables aside.) But if you're going to drink - and alcohol is obviously dangerous - well, maybe you don't want the otherwise more ideal Native/original genetics; maybe some alcohol-protective genes (with other downsides) would predict a longer and better life for you, on average.

Post reply on HN