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Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

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Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#111

I think the only thing missing from the movie is that they should have established that Andi had a sister, and maybe allude to the fact she has a twin or very similar looking sister. I think the twist was good actually, and you see why Miles was so shocked that Andi shows up to the party. That would have made the first hour of the movie more interesting.

I think there are a few hints - for example, the mythical Cassandra and Helen were also (non-mutual) twins, and putting a "Cassandra" and "Helen" on a Greek island (and maybe also in some sense "Paris") you're definitely being primed to think in that direction. I would need to watch it again to see if there's something more blatant as she shows up.

My nitpick is that Peg felt mostly extraneous - the main plot beat conversation with Peg could've been a conversation with Birdie directly. (And Derol is already present as the extraneous-for-the-sake-of-it element.)

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#112
post #48

Glass Onion takes the well-worn detective genre and creates some genuinely surprising moments by "cheating" a little with what it shows the audience. This article says it should have played it straight. I think that would have made for a more standard, boring movie. But whatever, that's just opinion. But I think it is silly to call it bad writing. Bad implies that the writer didn't have command of their craft. It is…

> creates some genuinely surprising moments by "cheating" a little I haven't seen the movie yet, but I know this much: you can't cheat . If you do, and you keep some fundamental fact hidden until the last minute, or if you use some kind of magic, or if the murderer was a complete outsider, or if the victim died by accident and nobody's guilty, or, God forbid! if it turns out the victim isn't actually dead, or it was…

> you can't cheat

Sherlock Holmes always does. Poor Watson, encumbered by reality like the audience, can't see the clues that suddenly appear only to Holmes just in time to announce the "obvious" truth.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#113
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author also "absolutely loathed Star Wars: The Last Jedi" which to me feels like an overreaction to a movie.

The Last Jedi was completely disjointed from the previous movie, introduced "fuel" as a plot device that hadn't been even mentioned in the 7 previous movies, gave us the Mary Poppins Princess Leia, had a weird and heavy handed side quest in a casino planet that ultimately had no impact on the plot, killed Snoke without giving the audience some form of closure as to who he was, had BB-8 pilot an AT-ST as an ex-machina…

> Mary Poppins Princess Leia

It's funny that the one single time on the entire series when things loose in deep space behave like if they weren't falling somewhere is the one people keep complaining about.

Anyway, the last 3 movies has a really great storyline that was completely destroyed by any other aspect you can pick. So the things people choose to complain are quite arbitrary. But this one is funny.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#114

I’m geniunely wondering what the audience is supposed to get from all the 2020 references (Covid, Among Us, Zoom, Twitch), and the barrage of celebrity name-drops. I feel like the film was written for some specific Twitter subculture Rian Johnson is a part of, and maybe they find all the references hilarious. The mystery is dull, the dialogue obnoxious, the jokes unfunny, and the camera has that patented ugly digital…

> all the 2020 references (Covid, Among Us, Zoom, Twitch), and the barrage of celebrity name-drops

Today's mystery, tomorrow's "beach blanket?" Haven't seen it, but if it's campy enough, it could have staying power.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#115
Reading the piece it seems like the author is upset they weren’t able to guess the suspect, and blamed the movie for it.

I watched it twice over the weekend, and the second viewing showed how many details were in plain view the whole time. Which was the central gag of the movie.

Up front, I’ve liked every Johnson film, except for Looper. Not that Looper was poorly crafted, just that I didn’t connect with it.

I thought Last Jedi was the best SW movie since Empire, especially among the sequels, since it had actual things to say. The other two seemed to be more about fan service. Andor is the only other SW media I’ve seen that I’ve enjoyed as much as LJ.

So I’m clearly in Johnson’s audience.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#116
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iirc it's extremely authoritarian. "Listen to your betters without question, for they know better than you. You do not need to understand their reasoning." We follow our heroes through an adventure and then our expectations are subverted when we learn their insubordinate adventure was bad and we're bad for rooting for them. Sorta flies in the face of everything people liked about star wars before it.

The Last Jedi is literally the only movie in the series to propose that a pseudo-religious order of wise men with a side obsession concerning blood lineages may not be the best way to structure a political movement.

I propose instead strange women in pools distributing light sabers.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#117
post #14

> Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery might be one of the worst written movies I’ve ever seen. Then this person has not seen very many movies. > And now Glass Onion will haunt me for the rest of my days. I don't care too much for this superlative, unduly passionate style of pop culture critique even if it is a joke. I enjoy reading negative critique of movies I like, as long as it shows understanding that reasonable pe…

The author also "absolutely loathed Star Wars: The Last Jedi" which to me feels like an overreaction to a movie.

Oh; wow, worst example ever.

Ten minutes into that movie when Leia somehow comes back to in deep space I was ready to walk out of the theatre.

It’s not an ‘overreaction’ to see The Last Jedi as a fundamentally awful film, it’s just the knee-jerk reaction most people I know who have seen it have gotten.

Whether you’re a Star Wars fan or not; ‘The Last Jedi’ is just a clear-as-day not-good film. But when you do actually take the time to analyze it and compare it to the original trilogy; it’s borderline unbelievable just how God-awful it really is.

I also never understood the idea that they hadn’t just kept the same director for the three films. 7/8/9 feels less like a trilogy than a disjointed mess of films imitating far better films.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#118
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that was my point. The movie was very good for what it was , and the article’s complaints are almost all based on the author making incorrect assumptions about the movie’s intent and then complaining that the writing did not meet their incorrect assumptions. It’s fine to dislike the movie; about 7% of critics and moviegoers do, according to rotten tomatoes. But at least have the grace to understand it.

In some occasions 7% of critics do have correct assumptions, being able to see through the catchy hooks, and this is one of those cases. This movie is expected to continue the original story as a proper sequel, but it is something completely different — it simply does not match the expectations. It is very easy to understand this movie, because it is flat and unimaginative junk that does not leave any space for intel…

I’m very sorry the movie made you that angry. I hope it’s one of those things you can see again in a few years and enjoy in a new light. I was like that with Steve Martin’s The Jerk: hated it, thought it was banal, came to appreciate it years later.

You may or may not be right about the ideas in Glass Onion being trivial, but how blind must the author of this clickbait review have been to not even notice that literally Yo-Yo Ma, literally playing himself, literally sets up the movie’s structure and explains why it plays out the way it does, in one of the first scenes? You can think that’s dumb, but you can’t ignore it when writing a critique!

This supposed revelation of “bad writing” is just clickbait from someone who didn’t understand the (yes, blatant! yes, arguably trivial!) structure the movie was exploring.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#119
I found Glass Onion's writing far from “lazy”.

> Instead, he used the most basic and lazy trick in the book: withholding information for no good reason whatsoever … With Glass Onion, our main perspective character was performing. And we didn’t know because the movie refused to let us know.

No, the movie is playing with your expectations around genre-typical knowledge gaps.

In classical murder mysteries like the original Knives Out, our knowledge gap is loosely aligned with the protagonist: they arrive at the scene knowing roughly what we know (“there's been a murder”), they outpace us to see through the unreliable witnesses and extend their knowledge gap through brilliant detective work, until the denouement where they explain what was in plain sight all along.

In Glass Onion the knowledge gaps are numerous and they're sliced, layered and reordered:

- There's a large initial knowledge gap between us and Benoit. He is not just ahead of us: he has a 50% head start. This gap slams shut halfway through the movie by backfilling information on how Benoit really came to receive his invitation to the island.

— A new gap opens: the knowledge we now share with Benoit is not yet known to the guests on the island, and we get to enjoy this with him as a reward for the initial “deceit”. From this point we have caught up with the protagonist, at the small cost of our poor reviewer feeling cheated at having interpreted simple unreliable narration as the movie _refusing_ to present the facts to him in tired chronological order.

— Yet another gap opens because for the first time in the film — only halfway through our murder mystery! — we know who was murdered but we don't yet know who murdered them. This presents us with the classical murder mystery knowledge gap that the reviewer wanted to exist from the film's start.

— The writers pepper extra knowledge gaps that provide more unknowns, some of which are new (who “killed” Miles in his murder mystery game?) and others that exist to provide coherence with the original Knives Out. (Who invited Benoit? Is the murderer of all victims the same person?)

> This gets back to something Hitchock [sic] talked about regarding tension. If you watch a scene where two people talk at a restaurant for five minutes then a bomb goes off, it’s boring for 5 minutes and shocking for an instant. If you watch a scene where someone plants a bomb under a table, then two characters show up and talk for five minutes, you’re wondering the entire time if the bomb will go off. It makes the conversation much more dynamic.

Glass Onion achieves far more dynamism than this! The murder-mystery format itself provides the “bomb under the table”: we start from the first minute knowing that a murder will be committed. When halfway through that “bomb” has not gone off yet the dynamic tension is unbearable. It's released with the first bomb's detonation (someone is murdered), only to be replaced immediately by more fizzing fuses (we learn that another is dead, and that the murderer must know there's an imposter).

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#120
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get Out was released 5 years ago. I think if you haven't seen it by now that's on you. Also, Darth Vader is Luke's father, Snape kills Dumbledore, and Bruce Willis is dead the whole movie.

Yep, got it, lesson learned. “Spoilers” can mean spoilers for anything. Back to my cave I go.

That wasn't his point. His point was that spoilers for a movie that's 5+ years old don't need to be alerted. I agree, because it would make movie discussion somewhat exhausting if it were otherwise.
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