Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#21

Post by theCrowing » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

mactavish88 wrote: post #19

theCrowing wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clintel was even in the news cycle a few years ago and you submit it without even googling it before? You impute that I have a particular stance on climate change, but I honestly believe you have because no person without an agenda would play naive like you. I myself just hate misinformation and people that share and play victim when nobody engages with it.

I get literally nothing from the news search in DuckDuckGo when I search for “clintel” It still seems you assume I have a particular agenda here beyond wanting to have a conversation on the topic.

Now you also play blind... so, you pretend that you didn't see the articles linked below before you pressed the "news" button?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clintel&t=h_&ia=web

First Page Results:

https://www.desmog.com/climate-intelligence-foundation-clint...

https://insideclimatenews.org/todaysclimate/experts-debunk-v...

https://www.thequint.com/climate-change/1200-scientists-clai...

https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/letter-signed-by-500-...

https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-09-16/climate-scienc...

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#22

Post by hotpotamus » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

How do we know that this large number of scientists actually exist? Have you met each of them and read their work? How do we know that you even submitted a link earlier?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#23

Post by mactavish88 » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

theCrowing wrote: post #18

mactavish88 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think it’s at least be insightful for whoever’s submitting content to understand why it was flagged? If it’s content a submitter’s come across for the first time, and they don’t see it discussed here on HN, so they post it, and it immediately gets suppressed without any explanation, how does that help the submitter? (e.g. if it’s been autoflagged, it’d be helpful to see a reason for that, and perhaps a link…

That's your problem. If you see your content flagged immediately your first course of action is complaining about it? Why not do the rational thing and google it so you can understand why other people flag it. As I said it's not my job to make you comprehend that the content you submitted is subpar quality. It's yours.

Maybe just move on with your life and don’t engage with the content if you’re not interested?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#24

Post by mactavish88 » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:45 PM UTC

theCrowing wrote: post #21

mactavish88 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get literally nothing from the news search in DuckDuckGo when I search for “clintel” It still seems you assume I have a particular agenda here beyond wanting to have a conversation on the topic.

Now you also play blind... so, you pretend that you didn't see the articles linked below before you pressed the "news" button? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clintel&t=h_&ia=web First Page Results: https://www.desmog.com/climate-intelligence-foundation-clint... https://insideclimatenews.org/todaysclimate/experts-debunk-v... https://www.thequint.com/climate-change/1200-scientists-clai... https://climatefeedback.org/evaluat…

I get none of those links on the first page. It took several pages of search results before I started seeing any of the links you’ve shared here.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#25

Post by version_five » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

I saw your submission and I think this is a case where flagging worked well.

My understanding of HN objectives is to promote new and interesting conversation. A "anthropogenic climate change is not real" article doesn't promote a good discussion, it just prompts people to rehash the same old stuff. Not to say that every new article about what Elon Musk did leads to any better conversation, but even many of those get flagged, and at least they are tracking a current event relevant to tech. There is no significant new information in sites like what you posted.

As a secondary point, but no doubt it helped getting the article flagged, it's a low-quality single agenda website that nobody has heard of and has all the hallmarks of a slightly crazy "fake news" (advertorial, whatever you want to call it) site. If an even slightly reputable real news org covered this, it might get flagged less. Though it would still probably lead to the same boring debate and ultimately get flagged anyway

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#26

Post by mactavish88 » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

theCrowing wrote: post #18

mactavish88 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think it’s at least be insightful for whoever’s submitting content to understand why it was flagged? If it’s content a submitter’s come across for the first time, and they don’t see it discussed here on HN, so they post it, and it immediately gets suppressed without any explanation, how does that help the submitter? (e.g. if it’s been autoflagged, it’d be helpful to see a reason for that, and perhaps a link…

That's your problem. If you see your content flagged immediately your first course of action is complaining about it? Why not do the rational thing and google it so you can understand why other people flag it. As I said it's not my job to make you comprehend that the content you submitted is subpar quality. It's yours.

But also, if there was at least a reason tagged along with the flagging, that could be helpful to submitters, don’t you think? Making people guess as to the reason for flagging seems like poor UX to me, and increases the overall hostility of the site to users.

Also, those links I posted are of far less importance to me than my actual concern in terms of how HN and other sites shape my perception of the world based on their UX design. That is the reason I posed this question. Not to complain about my posts getting flagged.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#27

Post by theCrowing » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

mactavish88 wrote: post #24

theCrowing wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you also play blind... so, you pretend that you didn't see the articles linked below before you pressed the "news" button? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clintel&t=h_&ia=web First Page Results: https://www.desmog.com/climate-intelligence-foundation-clint... https://insideclimatenews.org/todaysclimate/experts-debunk-v... https://www.thequint.com/climate-change/1200-scientists-clai... https://climatefeedback.org/evaluat…

I get none of those links on the first page. It took several pages of search results before I started seeing any of the links you’ve shared here.

Now you are just lying...

DuckDuckGo doesn't profile its users according to their search patterns, and everyone gets the same search results. [1]

[1] https://spreadprivacy.com/google-filter-bubble-study/

EDIT: Yeah, maybe he wasn't lying but the standard search results from 5 different VPN locations with different browsers and user agents is linked below. still sus.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#28

Post by theCrowing » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:58 PM UTC

mactavish88 wrote: post #23

theCrowing wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your problem. If you see your content flagged immediately your first course of action is complaining about it? Why not do the rational thing and google it so you can understand why other people flag it. As I said it's not my job to make you comprehend that the content you submitted is subpar quality. It's yours.

Maybe just move on with your life and don’t engage with the content if you’re not interested?

No, I care about the communities I participate in so if I see misinformation in "new" I flag it. (I didn't flag your submissions)

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#29

Post by troydavis » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

Your first submission may have been flagged because you wrote (“editorialized”) the title instead of using the actual page title. As https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html says: “Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.”

(Also, the title you chose may have been seen as an attempt to attract extra attention or skew the discussion. Whatever your actual intention, there’s little patience for that.)

Re: Ask HN: Is there a better model than flagging?

#30

Post by theCrowing » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 3:23 PM UTC

mactavish88 wrote: post #26

theCrowing wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your problem. If you see your content flagged immediately your first course of action is complaining about it? Why not do the rational thing and google it so you can understand why other people flag it. As I said it's not my job to make you comprehend that the content you submitted is subpar quality. It's yours.

But also, if there was at least a reason tagged along with the flagging, that could be helpful to submitters, don’t you think? Making people guess as to the reason for flagging seems like poor UX to me, and increases the overall hostility of the site to users. Also, those links I posted are of far less importance to me than my actual concern in terms of how HN and other sites shape my perception of the world based on…

As a member of a community or site, it is important to take the time to familiarize yourself with the guidelines and frequently asked questions in order to understand how it operates. There are numerous threads available discussing user-driven moderation on this platform, some even addressing the same concerns you have raised. It seems that you have not made an effort to understand the rules and features of the site, leading to a fundamental misunderstanding and criticism that may not be warranted. It is worth noting that these rules have remained unchanged for the past decade, despite the political and global pandemic events of recent years.

Instead of contributing to the repetition of discussions on this topic, it may be more productive to seek out information and consider the possibility that the issue may lie with your own understanding and usage of the site. Additionally, making false claims about search results on a particular search engine only serves to undermine the credibility of your perspective. Alone because of the duckduckgo fib I am ending the discussion, at least for me. I hope you have a pleasant day.