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Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

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Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It uses evaporative cooling. https://thatoregonlife.com/2021/09/google-to-expand-data-cen... Note the picture: The water vapor mist from Data Center cooling towers at night https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/locations/the-dalle... > Water vapor rises above the cooling towers in The Dalles data center in Oregon. These plumes of water vapor create a quiet mist at dusk. That is water that isn't being released back…

Yeah, it looks like some (most?) water is evaporated -- but a significant portion is also returned to the river. I saw elsewhere that google "consumes" around 4x as much water for hydroelectric power generation as they use for cooling. Hydroelectric will return essentially all the water back to the source.

The water from the river is regulated at a federal level - https://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/2021/11/why-does-g...

> Google’s data centers are right by the Columbia River. Why can’t the company just get its water out of the river?

> Federal law strictly governs water use from rivers. Anderson says withdrawals from the Columbia generally aren’t permitted.

> There are exceptions in cases where waters users can provide a “bucket for bucket replacement” of any water they pull out, Anderson told a city council meeting in September. In such a case, though, a water user would have to find water to put into the Columbia someplace else to compensate for water being pulled out by the city, or by Google.

So, if Google was to use Columbia river water, condense it, and then return exactly the amount that it took it, there wouldn't be an issue.

Instead, Goole is using water from the aquifer ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Plateau_Aquifer_Syste... ) where it is getting depleted:

> Areas where groundwater depletion is a concern are in the Umatilla area, and the Palouse slope. In the Umatilla area, total decline since the 1970s is from 300 ft to 100 ft of water height. Overall, between 1968-2009, mean groundwater decline across the aquifer system was at 1.0 ft/year.

The Dalles is part of the Umatilla syncline (see page 9 https://people.wou.edu/~taylors/g473/gonthier_1985.pdf ).

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#52

I'm actually more interested in the linked article about the city suing the newspaper to withhold the usage data from the public record, apparently at the behest of Google. I understand Google is a major employer in the area, but the city acting like Google's minion seems wrong.

> I understand Google is a major employer in the area, but the city acting like Google's minion seems wrong.

Major is a stretch, 200 employees in a 16,000 town.

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#53
post #4

Where does the water go after being used for cooling?

It evaporates, the heat is used to evaporate the water.

how does that work? the chips are only 95°C do you use a refrigerant cycle to gain heat from there? it's hard to see how you could make this work

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#54
post #48

Lots of comments here suggesting that the water use is no big deal, but please note that Google is not using river water, they’re currently evaporating 29% of the municipal water, which comes from the aquifer, in a very dry region. The aquifer in question was being depleted prior to agriculture moving to river water and the local aluminum smelter shutting down, but it’s now healthy. Google’s planned use threatens to…

That's a very thorough article that answers all the natural questions. Among others, "why don't they just use river water?".

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It evaporates, the heat is used to evaporate the water.

how does that work? the chips are only 95°C do you use a refrigerant cycle to gain heat from there? it's hard to see how you could make this work

Maybe they could borrow cooling technology from the mechanism used by humans on hot days

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the Colorado River reaches the sea. In the past, it fed a delta of two million acres of prime wetland, key habitat for migrating birds. Today that is all desert. The Sacramento River feeds the Sacramento delta, a thriving ecosystem. None of the water that reaches the sea was wasted.

But not because of hydroelectric. 0% of the water is "consumed" by hydropower, even if a huge percentage of the water passes through its turbines. The water is siphoned off elsewhere for irrigation.

The primary purpose of some dams is for water control, whether to control flooding, provide for irrigation and consumption, or both. You cannot divorce the power station from the reservoir in judging a particular hydro dam's environmental impact, because generating power is only one purpose of the dam. The Hoover with Lake Mead is certainly, objectively, and effectively of this dual purpose.

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#57
post #52

I'm actually more interested in the linked article about the city suing the newspaper to withhold the usage data from the public record, apparently at the behest of Google. I understand Google is a major employer in the area, but the city acting like Google's minion seems wrong.

> I understand Google is a major employer in the area, but the city acting like Google's minion seems wrong. Major is a stretch, 200 employees in a 16,000 town.

But those 200 employees are probably earning ~10%+ of the towns GDP.

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#58
The amount of water being driven into the atmosphere will have interesting impact on the local vegetation.

I find it interesting this never comes up in these articles discussing the impact of DC footprint.

More alarming is the immense heat load coming from many other sites. A 50MW site is literally a space heater taking 50MW of power and convecting it into the atmosphere.

I cannot imagine how that can avoid significant environmental impact.

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#59
post #57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand Google is a major employer in the area, but the city acting like Google's minion seems wrong. Major is a stretch, 200 employees in a 16,000 town.

But those 200 employees are probably earning ~10%+ of the towns GDP.

So the people earning the other 90% do not count? I thought wealthier people doing whatever they want was a bad idea, but not if it's Googlers.

Re: Google’s water use is soaring, consume more than 25% of water used in The Dalles

#60
post #59
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those 200 employees are probably earning ~10%+ of the towns GDP.

So the people earning the other 90% do not count? I thought wealthier people doing whatever they want was a bad idea, but not if it's Googlers.

I didn't say that, but if you think the wealth Google provides those 200 doesn't benefit the remaining 16k then you're delusional.
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