AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines • Hacker News Board

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#191

Post by blondin » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 1:44 AM UTC

marginalia_nu wrote: post #161

I think AI chatbots will replace some of the use cases for search engines, but I also think that is a good thing. It will let search engines do what they do even better. Search engines right now do a lot of things, arguably a bit too many, which has the actual search-aspect suffer a bit. A significant design obstacle with almost all search engines is that it's not entirely clear what you can do with them. They're jus…

my bet is on chatbots replacing Google Search and other search engines.

people will stop tolerating their shenanigans. i have, myself, seen what is possible. and i am not setting that bar low ever again.

the other time, ChatGPT taught me, right in the chat, about a CSS animation feature i didn't know about. with full example code. i proceeded to ask a trick question. i knew where to go for more in-depth information but asked anyway. ChatGPT gave me the correct answer. the top of the list was MDN. it also included w3schools, which i wasn't pleased about, but okay.

what i am trying to say is that i got my answer, code example, and where to go next in mere seconds. i did not waste time combing through SEO-ridden results. has any of you searched for anything web related on Google Search lately?

today ChatGPT recommended few electronic products. explained the selection criteria i needed to consider in the future! has any of you tried to look for products at all with Google Search?

my only use case for Google Search is my work machine. ChatGPT uses my personal account. they need to figure out enterprise environment soon.

i am having a hard time seeing other use cases search engines right now.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#192

Post by ClumsyPilot » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 1:47 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #162

22289d wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ChatGPT, if asked correctly, will instead generate one perfect document based on millions of the documents Not yet. Today, ChatGPT is bad with facts. Don't rely on what it tells you. But that appears to be the future. And it sounds great.

In my specific specialty - AWS - I asked it a lot of questions like I would at an interview and it answered the questions well enough that I would have passed a candidate who gave me the same answers. I didn’t just ask definitions. I asked your standard compare and contrast, why would you use, is X and appropriate use of Y, etc. It can also write Python code, modify existing code based on plain English sentences and…

I don't think people are out there producing fake theories for how to use AWS.

But if you try something medical, or god forbid political, it's dataset is not pure, it constains falsehood perpetuates by laymen, urban legends and outright fraud.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#193

Post by ClumsyPilot » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 1:50 AM UTC

tmpburning wrote: post #151

gukov wrote: post #22

The way I see it: - Today's search engines will give you links to millions of documents - ChatGPT, if asked correctly, will instead generate one perfect document based on millions of the documents To me, that's a clear evolution of the search engine, especially with all the SEO & ad spam that's plaguing Google and others currently. I wasn't ready to pay a monthly fee for an ad-free Google. I am ready to pay for somet…

> I am ready to pay for something like ChatGPT. they put too many restrictions on which answers ChatGPT is allowed to give though...

Maybe they didnt want another nazi chatbot headline

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/microsoft-shuts-down-ai-chatbot...

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#194

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 1:59 AM UTC

imetatroll wrote: post #168

lolinder wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Google is terrible at its job and produces garbage most of the time. That's the only reason why an LLM chatbot is seen by anyone as a viable replacement. But at the very least Google always gives you the source, which allows you to read it for yourself and judge its trustworthiness. No such option for ChatGPT.

I don't know if this is feasible or not, but having the chat bot also be able to respond with a subset of sources that it based its answer on would be a satisfying combination of both worlds I think. I would be really curious to see how trying to learn a new subject via a chatbot that is able to also provide source material links would go.

> I don’t know if this is feasible or not, but having the chat bot also be able to respond with a subset of sources that it based its answer on would be a satisfying combination of both worlds I think.

But an LLM doesn’t look at particular sources, find relevant ones, and write a response based on them, it is a mathematical summation of the way all of its sources look as sequences of text, and produces a response that based on that fits with its prompt. Identifying which sources most influence a response isn’t merely something that they don’t currently do, its information that, AFAIK, there is no plausible way to recover from the model.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#195

Post by NikolaNovak » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:04 AM UTC

gukov wrote: post #22

The way I see it: - Today's search engines will give you links to millions of documents - ChatGPT, if asked correctly, will instead generate one perfect document based on millions of the documents To me, that's a clear evolution of the search engine, especially with all the SEO & ad spam that's plaguing Google and others currently. I wasn't ready to pay a monthly fee for an ad-free Google. I am ready to pay for somet…

Today I have zero confidence in chatGPT, OR my ability to evaluate and correct it's inaccuracies strictly from within its interface. I feel I can compensate for search engine and arrive at answer I seek within my confidence interval via search engine. It's a tool that can get me there.

That may change in the future. Based on my limited understanding on how chatgpt works,I don't see how though - it explicitly is not designed to evaluate or "understand".

So today I don't see it replacing search engine for me.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#196

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:05 AM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #192

scarface74 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my specific specialty - AWS - I asked it a lot of questions like I would at an interview and it answered the questions well enough that I would have passed a candidate who gave me the same answers. I didn’t just ask definitions. I asked your standard compare and contrast, why would you use, is X and appropriate use of Y, etc. It can also write Python code, modify existing code based on plain English sentences and…

I don't think people are out there producing fake theories for how to use AWS. But if you try something medical, or god forbid political, it's dataset is not pure, it constains falsehood perpetuates by laymen, urban legends and outright fraud.

Can you give an example? In my limited experience, it refuses to answer anything political.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#197

Post by notwokeno » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:06 AM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #190

notwokeno wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are going to continue to write books and documentation because AI don't replace those (new software won't be explained by AI so it needs documentation and AI hallucinates anyway so you still have to check it. Books are similar but more extreme.) People will also continue to chat with each other in eg IRC because human connection is pleasant on a metaphysical level (AI cannot replace this) so you'll always have…

People will not write books and blogs if they can't pay the bills. If AI xant replace those, you will have no books and blogs. Thats how market works. > People will also continue to chat with each other... so you'll always have that as a data source. Your solution takes us back to before invention of the printing oress? the dark ages?

Most good blogs are part of something else and don't exist for their own sake. If your theory about books were true than the web would have killed them. It turns out having a carefully reviewed hard copy of the information is valuable so people still buy them. I highly doubt AI will change that.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#198

Post by destroy-2A » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:07 AM UTC

gukov wrote: post #22

The way I see it: - Today's search engines will give you links to millions of documents - ChatGPT, if asked correctly, will instead generate one perfect document based on millions of the documents To me, that's a clear evolution of the search engine, especially with all the SEO & ad spam that's plaguing Google and others currently. I wasn't ready to pay a monthly fee for an ad-free Google. I am ready to pay for somet…

My favourite use for chatGPT is to ask it for cooking recipes, no more wading through soe sob story’s about how this tomato inspired them to write this article with 10000 ads.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#199

Post by aleeds » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:09 AM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #188

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

devils advocate, but Google wasn’t designed to make sure the links it aggregates at the top are accurate/isn’t just blog spam designed to cater to specialized SEO tricks

Actually it was designed for that, and it was top line OKR for a long time. Amit Signhal rewrote the search engine and was a great leader caring a lot about relevancy until he was kicked out for harassment (it was deserved as far as I know, but at the same time Google lost an amazing engineer). In my experience the detoriation came after the change in leadership.

It is important to recontextuilize harassers. They are typically parasites on the organization, destroying others by stealing their work and eliminating others from the work force.

Undoubtedly he came off as clever, but being a harasser means that his achievements were outweighed by the benefits.

Re: AI chatbots are not a replacement for search engines

#200

Post by blondin » Mon, Dec 26, 2022, 2:11 AM UTC

not sure if any openai people are reading this thread. but they need to figure out a way to add new content to the model. or have people submit their content. i got some answers that were not wrong but out of date.