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Moving the Ctrl Key

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Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#41

Post by spudlyo »

keybored wrote: post #35
spudlyo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think focusing on hitting Ctrl on one side or the other is the problem -- it's the awkward contortion your hand has to make to hit the key, pinky or otherwise. It's in the same bad position on either side on a standard IBM PC 101 and later keyboard layouts. You'll just end up hurting both your hands if you alternate. Caps Lock as Ctrl will serve most Emacs users for quite a long time, and it's traditionally w…

OP already said that you dont have to use the pinky to hit the keys. I find the palm of my hand is nice for the right control key and the last knuckle of my pinky is nice for the left one (respectively on the appropriate hands). And my hands aren’t ruined yet.

I'm glad you found something that works for you. A friend used a similar technique of mashing the right and left control keys with his palms, but unfortunately after a month or so he discovered this hurt his hands too.

I'm of the opinion if you're regularly pressing keys on the keyboard without using the tips of your fingers and/or thumbs you're doing it wrong.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#42

Post by rhaway84773 »

BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

The only way to hit the ctrl key ergonomically with either hand is by lifting your hand from the home row.

But that makes touch typing ridiculously hard. It is extremely easy to fail to return your hand correctly to the home row and now everything you type will be off.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#43

Post by rhaway84773 »

patrec wrote: post #16
wrs wrote: post #9

Tip for vi users on Mac: get Karabiner-Elements and use the “complex modifier” that makes the Caps Lock key into ESC when you just press it, but Control when you use it with another key.

Indeed. And you can do the same thing with AutoHotKey on Windows and xcape or interception-tools on linux. Interception-tools has the big advantage that it doesn't just work under X (but also the console and wayland).

I use input-mapper on Linux to achieve the same. It’s truly a game changer. Converting 1 useless but highly accessible key into 2 useful ones is fantastic.

https://github.com/sezanzeb/input-remapper

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#44

Post by User23 »

Modifier keys all belong under the thumb. Keyboard designers absolutely need to read John Napier’s masterpiece Hands and design to account for this anatomical reality. The thumb works in opposition with the fingers.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#45

Post by layer8 »

pwiecz wrote: post #26
BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

Unfortunately both Alts are not equivalent. The right one, the AltGr is uaef in many languages to type letters with diacritics. E.g. in Polish AltGr+Z is Ż, while AltGr+X is Ź. Still using both Ctrls itself helps a lot, and one may have a right Windows to remap as Meta.

They are equivalent in the US layout, which doesn’t have AltGr. For software developers, the US layout is the most ergonomic, and I’d recommend using a Compose key for diacritics and such (I use the Caps Lock key as the Compose key). I’m not from the US, so no home bias here. :)

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#46

Post by chillfox »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #42
BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

The only way to hit the ctrl key ergonomically with either hand is by lifting your hand from the home row. But that makes touch typing ridiculously hard. It is extremely easy to fail to return your hand correctly to the home row and now everything you type will be off.

There are small bumps on the F and J keys so that you can feel when you are correctly on the home row.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#47

Post by keybored »

spudlyo wrote: post #41
keybored wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP already said that you dont have to use the pinky to hit the keys. I find the palm of my hand is nice for the right control key and the last knuckle of my pinky is nice for the left one (respectively on the appropriate hands). And my hands aren’t ruined yet.

I'm glad you found something that works for you. A friend used a similar technique of mashing the right and left control keys with his palms, but unfortunately after a month or so he discovered this hurt his hands too. I'm of the opinion if you're regularly pressing keys on the keyboard without using the tips of your fingers and/or thumbs you're doing it wrong.

I press. I don’t mash...

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#48

Post by layer8 »

QIYGT wrote: post #27

Strongly recommend using a keyboard with modifiers under your thumbs like Kinesis Advantage.

Not recommended fir everyone, I already struggle with thumb joint pain with a regular keyboard layout.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#49

Post by TacticalCoder »

BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

Your comment assumes everybody is using a "normal" keyboard.

Since then a great many have come up with actually ergonomic keyboards and they virtually all have something in common: modifiers easily reached with the thumbs while the hands are in their home position.

No crazy "moving the entire left hand to not hit ctrl with the pinky". That's not ergonomic. At all.

If the layout is QWERTY, left hand on asdf, right and on jkl; and the thumbs on modifiers/spacebar.

Hitting modifiers do not require hand movement and do not require stretching the finger underneath your other fingers.

If anyone's serious about this, consider an actual ergonomic keyboard (Ergodox, Keyboardio, Kinesis, etc.).

I picked Japanese keyboards --even though I don't speak japanese-- for several reasons: they're ubiquitous, they can be had with Topre switches (I much prefer Topre than Cherry), the spacebar is tiny so I don't need to distort my thumbs to reach the modifiers, they have lots of modifiers (due to the various input methods japanese has) and, well, the killer...

Laptops with japanese keyboards are a thing.

Laptops with, say, a Keyboardio keyboard: not so much a thing (unless you carry your keyboard and your laptop of course).

I remap the entire keyboard to be basically QWERTY with Hyper and Super in addition to Ctrl/Alt/Meta/Shift. Super is dedicated only* to the window manager and nothing else. Modifier+ijkl sends the actual arrows key code. Works in every single app.

Life is good.

Re: Moving the Ctrl Key

#50

Post by zajio1am »

BeetleB wrote: post #17

I've had a lot of ergo issues from typing, and I'm always disappointed that Emacs users focus on remapping the Caps Lock key while ignoring the advice most ergonomists give: There are two Alt and Ctrl keys on the keyboard. Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key. In general, when using these mo…

> Use both, and use both halves of the keyboard If you're doing a combination like Ctrl F, use the right control key. If you're doing Ctrl-l, use the left control key.

Coordinating both hands to press key combos seems much harder than doing that with just one hand.

Also, in many cases (unrelated to Emacs), one hand is on mouse, so pressing keyboard shortcuts by one hand is much more useful than depending on both hands.

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