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The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

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Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#121

Post by SyzygistSix »

froggertoaster wrote: post #29

You can downplay this all you want - but remember: stuff like this is a microcosm of a larger issue. Sections of your government worked directly with Twitter to control what information you saw. Much bigger organizations - Facebook comes to mind - must be doing the same thing every.single.day. And no one finds this even a little bit alarming?

Exactly. What if I WANT to be tricked by a Russian disinformation campaign? What if I just want a juicy story that justifies my biases and I have no regard for the truth at all?

Is there a Mastodon server that straight up admits that it may include Russian disinformation and is primarily for entertainment purposes rather than factual discussion?

edit: Or a mix of both true news items and disinformation! See if you can tell which is which!

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#122

Post by acdha »

elurg wrote: post #93
acdha wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The distinction between the government "asking nicely" and "making demands" is not strong enough. In theory could Twitter could have resisted but the costs would have been quite high. Really? Companies do this all of the time. For example, how many billions did Apple lose for resisting the FBI’s requests with the San Bernardino shooter? > It's also apparent that regarding the Hunter Biden story the FBI outright lie…

As far as I understand the FBI knew that the Hunter Biden story was real but encouraged everybody else to believe that it was a Russian hoax. Doesn't this count as lying? It's not just lying, it's explicit disinformation with an electoral goal. This went so far that major web platforms blocked all forms of disagreement and the public dismissed it as a conspiracy theory. It was highly effective. I hate Trump's guts bu…

Can you cite any of those claims? What’s been established in public and e.g. Zuckerberg’s interview was that they warned companies to be wary about another repeat of election interference, but nobody is saying that the FBI told them to kill this story.

> This went so far that major web platforms blocked all forms of disagreement and the public dismissed it as a conspiracy theory. It was highly effective

This is imaginary: I’m not even sure why you’re lying about something we all remember, especially since nothing in the laptop data was even substantial even if was all true.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#123

Post by robert_foss »

pannSun wrote: post #112
mef wrote: post #9

I’ve been trying to read these Twitter files threads thoughtfully, and maybe it’s just a sign of the current average level of comfort with government involvement with social media platforms, but I’m generally not seeing much issue with the stuff being revealed. the worst thing about this particular thread seems like the govt agencies talking to Twitter about foreign influence are overreaching a bit (eg asking them to…

Did you miss [1]? The US govt. used its influence over Twitter to help sell its foreign policy (military interventions included) to the US and global audience. The only way you could not take issue with it, is if you're fine with govt. psyops/undisclosed propaganda. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34111071

It used to be CIA and TV. Nothing new under the sun.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#124

Post by Ygg2 »

stefan_ wrote: post #35
akira2501 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hunter Biden laptop story was real. The FBI knew it was real. The FBI lied to corporations like Twitter to stop accounts from legitimate publications from reporting on it right before an election where it certainly could have impacted the outcome. Twitter went even further and prevented people from exchanging the story with each other in DMs. I honestly don't see how you could be comfortable with this, unless you…

Ahh yes, all those tweets the FBI reported that Matt forgot to tell you were straight up revenge porn. I really wonder why they were deleted! If only he could have found out using, like, the Web Archive, as many others did afterwards. (It was the Trump government FBI, by the way. In case your timeline is a bit mixed up?)

> were straight up revenge porn.

Citation needed. Even Wikipedia lists it as an abandoned laptop that was trawled for data. Trash as far as I know is legitimate object of search (e.g. police does it).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controvers...

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#125

Post by antiterra »

mef wrote: post #9

I’ve been trying to read these Twitter files threads thoughtfully, and maybe it’s just a sign of the current average level of comfort with government involvement with social media platforms, but I’m generally not seeing much issue with the stuff being revealed. the worst thing about this particular thread seems like the govt agencies talking to Twitter about foreign influence are overreaching a bit (eg asking them to…

I am someone who didn’t see anything seriously objectionable in the Twitter files, but I do think it raised some questions worth thinking about.

If the FBI messages you and says ‘hey… review this content and see if it’s violating your own policies,’ is that inherently an innocent request? I could see a world where ‘see if it violates your own policies’ is a code for extortion with plausible deniability.

Could anything be done to reduce the ability of a large organization to extort an online platform into censoring content that complies with their guidelines? Should the requests be public unless part of an active investigation, or is that sort of thing too easily gamed?

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#126

Post by ajross »

akira2501 wrote: post #26
mef wrote: post #9

I’ve been trying to read these Twitter files threads thoughtfully, and maybe it’s just a sign of the current average level of comfort with government involvement with social media platforms, but I’m generally not seeing much issue with the stuff being revealed. the worst thing about this particular thread seems like the govt agencies talking to Twitter about foreign influence are overreaching a bit (eg asking them to…

The Hunter Biden laptop story was real. The FBI knew it was real. The FBI lied to corporations like Twitter to stop accounts from legitimate publications from reporting on it right before an election where it certainly could have impacted the outcome. Twitter went even further and prevented people from exchanging the story with each other in DMs. I honestly don't see how you could be comfortable with this, unless you…

> The FBI lied to [...] Twitter to stop [...] reporting on [The Hunder Biden laptop story]

OK, that's the takeaway that Taibbi and Musk wants us to absorb. But... can you link to the actual spot in the (sigh) "Twitter Files" that actually shows this? Because like the grandparent poster did and reported, I looked for it. And it's not there.

There's a bunch of mid-level bland communication that if you squint might be understood as a bunch of underlings carrying out orders in pursuit of that. Or it might just be a bunch of folks trying in good faith not to push a suspect story at a sensitive time.

There is absolutely no evidence of the kind of conspiracy you allege here. It's just not there. Which given the sourcing (the CEO is directing the investigation!) means it probably doesn't exist within Twitter. It's just not there. Where's the meat here?

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#127

Post by counttheforks »

mef wrote: post #9

I’ve been trying to read these Twitter files threads thoughtfully, and maybe it’s just a sign of the current average level of comfort with government involvement with social media platforms, but I’m generally not seeing much issue with the stuff being revealed. the worst thing about this particular thread seems like the govt agencies talking to Twitter about foreign influence are overreaching a bit (eg asking them to…

[flagged]

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#128

Post by joshuamorton »

elurg wrote: post #93
acdha wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The distinction between the government "asking nicely" and "making demands" is not strong enough. In theory could Twitter could have resisted but the costs would have been quite high. Really? Companies do this all of the time. For example, how many billions did Apple lose for resisting the FBI’s requests with the San Bernardino shooter? > It's also apparent that regarding the Hunter Biden story the FBI outright lie…

As far as I understand the FBI knew that the Hunter Biden story was real but encouraged everybody else to believe that it was a Russian hoax. Doesn't this count as lying? It's not just lying, it's explicit disinformation with an electoral goal. This went so far that major web platforms blocked all forms of disagreement and the public dismissed it as a conspiracy theory. It was highly effective. I hate Trump's guts bu…

Just to clarify, what part of the hunter Biden story was "real"? The hunter Biden story can mean everything from "a laptop was found with hunters nudes, and it's discovery was probably influenced by Russian state assets" to "hunters laptop contains proof of misdealings my the president".

As far as I can tell, the first is more or less true and the second isn't.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#129

Post by dragonwriter »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #121
froggertoaster wrote: post #29

You can downplay this all you want - but remember: stuff like this is a microcosm of a larger issue. Sections of your government worked directly with Twitter to control what information you saw. Much bigger organizations - Facebook comes to mind - must be doing the same thing every.single.day. And no one finds this even a little bit alarming?

Exactly. What if I WANT to be tricked by a Russian disinformation campaign? What if I just want a juicy story that justifies my biases and I have no regard for the truth at all? Is there a Mastodon server that straight up admits that it may include Russian disinformation and is primarily for entertainment purposes rather than factual discussion? edit: Or a mix of both true news items and disinformation! See if you ca…

> Is there a Mastodon server that straight up admits that it may include Russian disinformation and is primarily for entertainment purposes rather than factual discussion?

It doesn't quite admit it, and its a fork, but Truth Social may be close enough.

Re: The FBI was the primary link between the intelligence community and Twitter

#130

Post by machina_ex_deus »

cyberphobe wrote: post #89
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #21

If you don't see anything wrong with the government forcing censorship on controversial political questions, such as whether elections are safe and fair, just imagine your own reaction if after the 2016 election, Trump's FBI would be monitoring Twitter for any information about Cambridge Analytica / Russia's interference, labeling them as misinformation and censoring and banning everyone mentioning them. If your valu…

I’m fine with the government shutting down anti-democratic movements. I’m not fine with anti-democratic governments shutting down legitimate discussion that looks bad on them, or serving a foreign power. These are not the same thing.

Then all it will take to lose your democracy is for a dictator to proclaim his opponents a danger to democracy. Maybe using a Reichstag fire. You can't fight evil with evil, or fight undemocratic tyrants with undemocratic measures. Introducing vulnerabilities into your democratic system is a double edged sword.
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