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The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

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Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#81
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sun-3's had an empty socket for DES chips (AmZ8068 Data Ciphering Processor (DCP) from AMD) that were never widely used outside of NSA, for export control reasons. Ironically enough, John Gilmore build the EFF "Deep Crack" DES cracker in Sun 4/470 chassis. I coined the name as homage to Deep Blue and Deep Thought, and to signify that there was a deep crack in the US export control policies, which the project was mean…

Now tell ‘em the “dress code” story

"Yes, we have a dress code. You have to dress." – Scott McNealy

On the other hand, down the road at SGI there was a practice called "Skinnyhacking"!

https://rdtk.net/internet/how-do-you-check-a-computer-s-comp...

>Snowsinger. November 21, 2020 at 07:48.

>A truly excellent review of the history of Silicon Graphics. I worked in the Australian Sales office as their 1st engineer in the Asia Pacific region. Was trained in MtView the 1st week the MtView campus opened. The 1st system I worked on was the IRIS 1000 and subsequently all the products from then on till I left in mid-2009 when the Australian Engineering division was shut. A great company with great people who just wanted to engineer the best Graphics experience on the planet until we lost focus and vision of what we did well. Brings to Mind the Skinny Hackers, the Rocktain event, PCP monitoring, CXFS (Clustered File Systems), Failsafe, Diskless boot, Voxel vision, and so many other engineering wins. A great company, great people, & the drive to make a better computing world. Thank you for the memories and documenting the history of a company that did make some huge breakthroughs in Computer Graphics & Computing architecture. Just go ask NVIDIA, Cray and now HP!! Also a shout out to Jim Clark & his team for the vision and determination to bring the Graphics Engine to world, the heart of the IRIS workstation and subsequent graphics systems.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.sgi.misc/c/X50cCoYrU20/...

>Tom Davis, Mar 22, 1993, 6:06:21 PM, comp.sys.sgi.misc

>In article , ol...@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson) writes:

|> In j...@bu-pub.bu.edu (Jason Heirtzler) writes:

|> | Okay, I gotta know. Whom does the phrase "The Skinny Hackers" refer to?

|> A small group of (fairly skinny ;) ) folks who are also great hackers/developers and mostly long time SGI employees. Among other fruits of their group hackerdom was the original showcase.

>Being skinny didn't have anything to do with it. Although Showcase was the best known product of the skinnyhackers, the first product was an image of them made from a photo of all three sitting naked at computer terminals, busily hacking. On top of the photo was the international "no" symbol (red circle with a line across it), and underneath, the words "No Skinnyhacking".

>Note: Skinnyhacking is a dangerous activity, and should only be performed by professionals. Do NOT attempt it at home.

>If you're interested, you can see the image in the most recent (1992) SIGGRAPH proceedings, in distored form on the back cover, and in non-distored form on page 252.

>I can't imagine that anyone would want a copy of this image, but I have one in SGI format. (Actually, the secret goal is to have this image overtake the mandrill in popularity.)

|> I won't speak further to protect their secret identities ;)

>I will! It was me! Tom Davis! The bald guy in the front! Oh, and the other two are Rocky Rhodes and Scott Carr. Ann Sydeman joined the group a short time later, but unfortunately missed the initial photo session (although there was a subsequent video ...). Paul Haeberli was the photographer.

[Fortunately I found a pdf of the paper with the image:]

"Fast Shadows and Lighting Effects Using Texture Mapping", by Mark Segal, Carl Korobkin, Rolf van Widenfelt, Jim Foran, Paul Haeberli, Silicon Graphics Computer Systems. Computer Graphics, 26,2, July 1992, Page 252, Figure 3: Simulating a Slide Projector:

https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/133994.134071

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My supposition has been that, absent Apple to throw their weight behind the iPhone, someone would have created a pure touchscreen device (Android had one such concept under development IIRC) but it would have failed because it would have been just one phone among many, gathering dust at retail stores. Apple bet the farm on one phone, had the built-in fan base to leverage, and the resources to make it work well from d…

the iphone was also symbiotic outgrowth of the massive ipod success

Though it was a factor -- it's real success was that it was OS X in a tiny phone -- basically a portable Mac with totally wireless connectivity. For many applications you could simply leave your laptop at home and walk on the bus and go on with your day.

Steve Jobs even said at its launch that the iPhone rans OS X and ran "desktop class applications". This with it's multi-touch full screen keyboard and GUI integration meant that people could interact with it much more naturally than any phone in the past. Even my mother could use it, which is remarkable, considering how many cell phones I gave her that she couldn't use.

I guarantee you that the most used features from day one of the iPhone launch were: Safari, Google Maps, and YouTube, with the Music app being simple a "nice to have".

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#83
post #41

Not sure what year they arrived, but Ohio University still has an entire lab equipped with old Sun systems. Intro to programming or whatever all engineering majors have to take have their class in that lab… have been there for at least 15 years to my knowledge.

Sun had a System adminstrator 1 class that lasted a week. I was lucky to be sent by an employer and it was fantastic and granular. Essentially the class was bring up a Solaris install in such a granular system the we started with Inodes or just below Inodes. The entire OS and it’s supporting abstractions were revealed.

If this lab is used for that type of class it would be worth the trouble to keep it running.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#84

It is a good video but it isn't necessarily "accurate." (I worked at Sun from 1986 to 1995) Some things I would have said differently; Sun's biggest potential competitor early on was Digital Equipment Corp's VAXStation. It was only DECs unwillingness to cannibalize the sale of their larger minicomputers that prevented them from sucking a lot of oxygen out of the market. Sun invested heavily in the i86 architecture, c…

Indeed, the SunOS -> Solaris transition left a lot of hackers keeping SunOS 4.1.4 patched until very very late in the game! And then you give up and run your stuff under NetBSD's compat layer, still on SPARC.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#85
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sun crypto card which did blob in the host, super-enciphered key never leaves card en clair to perform sign.. that wound up running the ICANN dnssec root signing for a while. They also wound up moving to other HSM when spares became an issue IIRC, not wanting to be stranded in Oracle. The E10k was interesting if you went with 'run this Java process and do millions of iops' non-stop. Like tandem/stratus type stuff…

Sun-3's had an empty socket for DES chips (AmZ8068 Data Ciphering Processor (DCP) from AMD) that were never widely used outside of NSA, for export control reasons. Ironically enough, John Gilmore build the EFF "Deep Crack" DES cracker in Sun 4/470 chassis. I coined the name as homage to Deep Blue and Deep Thought, and to signify that there was a deep crack in the US export control policies, which the project was mean…

Yup. And when I joined in March of '86 I needed to help a customer with the crypto chip but there weren't any systems with them around, so I went over to Building 10 and we "built" a Sun 3/50 from parts inventory, including the chip, which I carried back over to my office in building 5. However, because it had never gone through the manman system (manufacturing tracking) the system didn't exist when Sun got around to doing inventory management internally!

I regret not taking the advice of a senior engineer there at the time (John L.) who said, "Well if it doesn't exist, you should take it home, no one will miss it." But no, I figured out how to make it "real" and got it put into the system so that it could get an inventory tag. (a special one it turned out, that identified it for "secured destruct." Aka things that were crushed and not scrapped)

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#86
post #9

Sun was caught by the WinTel (Windows - Intel) engine that commoditized computing. They died because they were unable to rapidly change their businessmodel that relied on an expensive sales staff vendoring relatively big ticket items. In other words, they died by their own sword.

Didn't also raise of Linux sped Sun's demise. In early 2000's the private compute farm of the org I was working had a mix of Solaris and Linux machines, with Solaris hosts outnumbering Linux hosts. Within couple of years with aim of uniformization all hosts were standardized to Linux.

Not as i recall. Linux at that time was seen as an interesting project, but not yet suitable for the typical workloads ascociated with a Sun workstation.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#87

I started using M68K based Sun 3 machines in high school in 1991. In college from 1993-97 we had thousands of Suns, HP-UX, DEC Ultrix, Unix RISC workstations on campus. I joined the semiconductor industry in 1997 and all of of chip design EDA software ran on Suns. Everyone had a Sun on their desk and some people also had a Windows PC for MS-Office. We had big 14 CPU Suns in the server room with 16GB RAM for big jobs…

> Then the AMD 64-bit Opteron came out and it was all over. We never bought a Sun after that.

Sun actually sold an Opteron based workstation, reusing the 'Ultra' name, for a quite reasonable price then. A buddy of mine, interested in Java development, bought it (and a few years later gifted it to me). It was a well engineered PC (could run MS Windows), with Solaris installed (I only ever used it with Linux).

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#88

It is a good video but it isn't necessarily "accurate." (I worked at Sun from 1986 to 1995) Some things I would have said differently; Sun's biggest potential competitor early on was Digital Equipment Corp's VAXStation. It was only DECs unwillingness to cannibalize the sale of their larger minicomputers that prevented them from sucking a lot of oxygen out of the market. Sun invested heavily in the i86 architecture, c…

Very interesting, thanks for the stories. I think you were right to identify Opteron as a major threat. x86 had taken at lot of market from the UNIX/RISC vendors with Pentium Pro particularly before that, but Opteron really opened a new front in taking the fight beyond the low-end. There were of course big boutique x86 systems from Sequent and Unisys and the like, but those were more like the big UNIX systems -- expe…

> Sun would have been pushing shit uphill to convince Oracle to support a new port for a BSD they would sell on x86 systems.

That would have been far and away the easiest part of that mission. Oracle will keep an utterly obscure port of the core database product alive for a single customer if they're paying enough money, or at least that is the way it was 20 years ago, and their other products generally just depend on a working JVM. A BSD port in cooperation with Sun would have been extremely easy.

Making enough people in Sun care about desktop computing again would have been the hardest part.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#89
post #64

Everyone has good things to say about Sun, but let's not forget that they tried to monetize Java (even trying to take money from open-source communities like FreeBSD) long before they were acquired by Oracle.

God forbid! A company trying to make money? How awful!

Maybe Sun would still be around if it was better at monetizing the things it invented. Maybe that would have been a better outcome than Oracle owning all of it.

Should we also be mad at Red Hat for trying to monetize Linux (which they didn’t even invent)?

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM bought Red Hat fairly recently, long after SUN was bought by Oracle.

My bad, maybe they were investing in it and pushing to their customers? I recall some ibm connection

https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/ibm-to-spend-1-billi...

IBM to spend $1 billion on Linux in 2001

This long before IBM bought Red Hat in 2019

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