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The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

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Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#71
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to other events, Sun entered dotcom boom a bit from a wounded position due to high volume of recalls caused by radioactive cache in what was to be flagship processor. Meanwhile IBM had a lot more revenue streams (including still x86 machines on low end, AS/400 on middle size, and Mainframe and supercomputing business at the top) that weren't much impacted by fickle nature of dotcom.

Radioactive cache? Sun shipped radioactive parts to customers?

Static RAM they bought from IBM; they trusted it too much, didn't include ECC in its path to CPUs, and completely torched any chance at becoming an enterprise vendor by blaming their customers, making them sign NDAs before Sun would "help" etc. You really don't want customers to describe an "enterprise" experience as "They treated the whole thing like a cover-up" https://www.computerworld.com/article/2596346/more-users-sla...

That and what PeterStuer's describes as "They died because they were unable to rapidly change their businessmodel that relied on an expensive sales staff vendoring relatively big ticket items." killed them dead.

Specifically startups weren't able to buy Sun's high quality x86 systems in medium quantities from Sun's designated channels, there was a fatal gap between what you could put on a credit card and placing million dollar enterprise quantity orders. So startups bought from Dell which was actually willing trade money for hardware, learned how to deal with those cheaper systems' quirks, and if successful by the time they were big enough to buy Sun systems in enterprise quantities it was way too late. This of course before the cloud became a thing.

Something like what's discussed in the recent topic "Bugs that cost money" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34103323 If you won't accept money from the people who want to pay you it for your stuff you aren't likely to survive.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good morning, Don. Between you and Chuck you could probably write a fairly authoritative history of that era. I'd definitely pay to read it.

i'd definitely pay for a book about sun too... it seems like the one company that in s.v that never got one.

And is probably one of the more deserving ones. So much innovation came from there.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The professional Unix workstation now runs Linux and there are lots of them. I've used SGI and Sun Microsystems hardware (and long before that Apollo, which probably means very little to people today). They were fantastic in their day and the degree of stability that you could get out of those boxes was something that I'd love to have now. But almost all of the functionality with maybe some degraded performance for e…

Do it yourself linux workstations with off-the-shelf hardware offer a decent emulation of the 30yr old original but the fair comparison would be with a current design that packs an amount of innovation proportional to the lapsed time. Funny to see that people are so resigned to what is on offer they cant even imagine what really good might look like today.

Without examples your comment is content free.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting tidbit: the windows x64 project was code named sundown. I think IBM buying redhat and aggressively pushing Linux was also a big factor in killing sun

IBM bought Red Hat fairly recently, long after SUN was bought by Oracle.

My bad, maybe they were investing in it and pushing to their customers? I recall some ibm connection

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#76
post #75

Anyone know who designed the SUN logo. It is a very clever arrangement of the characters S U and N. You can see SUN from any angle; and it also looks like electronic circuit. Very clever design.

https://1000logos.net/sun-microsystems-logo/

The emblem was created in 1982 by Vaughan Pratt, professor of computer science.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#77
post #64

Everyone has good things to say about Sun, but let's not forget that they tried to monetize Java (even trying to take money from open-source communities like FreeBSD) long before they were acquired by Oracle.

I don’t see the problem with monetising tour own products.

Keep in mind those were different times, and development tools were one of the things that costed a lot of money.

Microsoft still does a large amount of money off the visual studio tooling.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#78

I wonder how companies like IBM, Intel and Oracle were able to survive through the dotcom crash and 2008's financial recession, where Sun Microsystems essentially got obliterated. Did Sun Microsystems really had that bad of a management compared to them?

Ibm most likely had many multi-years (decades?) long contracts.

Stuff like mainframes assure, at least, decades of support contracts.

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#79
I started using M68K based Sun 3 machines in high school in 1991. In college from 1993-97 we had thousands of Suns, HP-UX, DEC Ultrix, Unix RISC workstations on campus.

I joined the semiconductor industry in 1997 and all of of chip design EDA software ran on Suns. Everyone had a Sun on their desk and some people also had a Windows PC for MS-Office. We had big 14 CPU Suns in the server room with 16GB RAM for big jobs and would remotely display to our local Sun machines via X11.

I convinced my manager to let me install Linux on a PC and we got a 21" monitor running beyond 1600x1200 (1800x1440 I think) and everyone thought was much nicer, quieter, and most importantly far cheaper than the Sun on their desk.

Then everyone decided to switch and we stacked all the Suns in the server room.

In 1999 we were trying a new chip synthesis tool from a startup called Ambit (later acquired by Cadence) I submitted a bug report with a crash dump showing "Sun4u SPARC Solaris 2.5" and got a reply back from the support showing they replicated the crash and it had "i686 Linux 2.0 GCC" or something in the log.

I was surprised to see that the developers were running it on Linux. You could only buy this software for Solaris / HP-UX / IBM AIX. I asked for the Linux version and the developer said "We don't sell the Linux version, we're a startup that doesn't have money to buy a Sun for every developer so we use Linux x86 and then compile for Sun/HP/IBM at the very end"

Around 2002 the Linux / x86 machines had gotten so fast and cheap that the EDA companies started releasing their software for Linux and we started buying Linux machines. I remember recompiling a custom Linux kernel to change the user / kernel memory split for 2GB / 2GB to 3GB user / 1GB kernel and then 3.75GB user / 250MB kernel. We had some programs that needed over 4GB RAM so we kept a few 64-bit Suns for those.

Then the AMD 64-bit Opteron came out and it was all over. We never bought a Sun after that.

I'm still in the semiconductor industry and everything still runs on Linux. We have clusters with tens of thousands of Linux machines and access them via a remote X11 desktop session (Exceed, NoMachine, X2Go)

Re: The Dawn and Dusk of Sun Microsystems [video]

#80

I worked for Sun in the early 1990s when they were widely seen as an unstoppable force. It was wild. Even around 2000, I felt as if they were leading the Web into the future. But after the dot com bubble burst, it was sad to see how quickly they declined and how Solaris and SPARC faded into obscurity. I still have a lot of old Sun machines in my basement as a reminder of those amazing times. I can't get rid of them,…

I worked at a company in about 2002-5 that was selling software to mobile phone carriers. They were still exclusively Sun hardware. And that was probably the last time I used Sun hardware.

I have no recollection of why McNealy left, but I’m not sure Schwartz was the right person for the job. He did some good work for forwarding the case for FOSS, but it always seemed to come at the expense of Sun.

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