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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#441

Post by buran77 »

glogla wrote: post #434
tjoff wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely depends on how cold it is? As well as amperage... In Sweden there were lot of reports of people being unable to charge with 230V 10A. Sure, you'd make sure to install a more powerful charger if necessary. But that requires you and everywhere else to be adapted for EVs. Which is a pain.

Is 10A common in Sweden? Around here, every basic socket is rated 230V 16A and even apartments typically have each phase 230V 25A. And then you can go to multiple phases. (Funny thing, this is kind oversized for domestic applications and the driver behind it is that the law says you pay fee based on maximum amperage of your connection, so electricity companies refuse to install anything smaller than 25A and give ever…

> Also, how adapting to EVs is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE is not, I don't get it.

That's a very "you-centric" view of the world. Convenience is convenience, regardless of whether it destroys the world or not, and more money is expected to bring more convenience. So very few people say "I'll suffer this winter so the world is destroyed just a little bit less". That's why they have EVs but can still have a "factory sized" carbon footprint due to their huge houses, multiple cars, etc.

Case in point, you probably get how adapting to public transport is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE because you want a personal car is not.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#442

Post by inferiorhuman »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #321
GalenErso wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

[flagged]

  Not to mention the fact that large portions of the United States are
  undergoing rolling blackouts right now
No, they're not.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#443

Post by rad_gruchalski »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #131
alphabettsy wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember that a lot of people have to spend 10-15 minutes warming up their cars before they drive them in cold weather. People choose to do this. This isn’t required and it’s recommended against in modern vehicles. > I do not want to go into details, better car mechanics than me should, but there is all kind of chaos that can happen if your engine freezes and you try to drive it immediately. Engines do not freeze i…

> People choose to do this. This isn’t required and it’s recommended against in modern vehicles. I’m curious about that recommendation, do you know why that is?

Because your car engine does not get the right mixture until you start driving.

In a 2022 car I have now even the cabin doesn’t get proper heating from the aircon until it’s driven.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#444

Post by rad_gruchalski »

nottorp wrote: post #417
justsomehnguy wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need N joules to heat up the 300kg of the engine. It doesn't matter if you sit there for 15 minutes freezing your ass with an engine running at 1500rpm (and all other car parts still freezing) or 5 minutes actually driving at 3000rpm - you still spent N joules on heating, difference is the time. And the car heater runs on the engine heat, not on the electricity, so the sooner you would warm the engine the sooner…

It's possible you need to idle for 10 minutes just to scrape the ice off your windows though :)

You don’t need to idle the car for 10 minutes to scrape the ice off. You can scrape it off with the engine off.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#445

Post by glogla »

buran77 wrote: post #441
glogla wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 10A common in Sweden? Around here, every basic socket is rated 230V 16A and even apartments typically have each phase 230V 25A. And then you can go to multiple phases. (Funny thing, this is kind oversized for domestic applications and the driver behind it is that the law says you pay fee based on maximum amperage of your connection, so electricity companies refuse to install anything smaller than 25A and give ever…

> Also, how adapting to EVs is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE is not, I don't get it. That's a very "you-centric" view of the world. Convenience is convenience, regardless of whether it destroys the world or not, and more money is expected to bring more convenience. So very few people say "I'll suffer this winter so the world is destroyed just a little bit less". That's why they…

> Case in point, you probably get how adapting to public transport is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE because you want a personal car is not.

Oh for sure. That is why people saying "what about people living in apartments? checkmate, EVs!" annoy me so much - if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car.

But people are used to their comforts, so saying that doesn't win any favors or votes. Nor does saying "it's good that EVs are more expensive, since fewer people will be able to afford cars".

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#446

Post by Kaibeezy »

Vecr wrote: post #301
acdha wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should be more expensive to cover their externalities but considering that cars spend 95% of the day parked and most people are not driving hundreds of miles per day, it seems likely that the combination of charging points at parking garages and similar structures, homes, streetlights, etc. is going to reach a level where most people can charge more than they need to. In fact, since solar has such massive daylig…

If someone actually believes in democracy, they should try to get politicians to agree with the statement "cars should be more expensive to cover their externalities" on the record. In the US, almost every single one would dodge the question or outright disagree. Even the ones not running for re-election don't want to ruin their and their party's reputation.

Many (surely the majority of) Americans like and/or are dependent on cars. They are happy to be able to vote to shrug that externality off to the overall population.

When the majority of Americans dislike and/or are unhappy with 100° Thanksgiving, beepocalypse, aging out of being able to drive, or whatever else “cars” wreck, then they will start voting to push the externalities off to heavier users.

Eventually, the resulting ghost sprawl of empty suburban neighborhoods will provide enough recyclable building materials to rehome us all nicely in subterranean hive cities. Our eyes will evolve larger to gather the dim light. Our ears will shrink to muffle the incessant hum. Our useless teeth will disappear after a few centuries of microbial food paste consumption. Clothing will become an affectation.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#447

Post by rad_gruchalski »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #90
GalenErso wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

The majority of the country doesn't live in an area that regularly gets extremely cold and even fewer people drive 100 miles every other day. EVs are always getting better, and they’re already good enough for most people. I live in an area that does get below freezing, and my car preheats the battery before I unplug it to go somewhere while the cabin warms.

„It works on my computer”.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#448

Post by nottorp »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #444
nottorp wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible you need to idle for 10 minutes just to scrape the ice off your windows though :)

You don’t need to idle the car for 10 minutes to scrape the ice off. You can scrape it off with the engine off.

For the good of the engine maybe. For the good of the driver... when you're finished scraping off it's better inside. Plus the windows kinda warmed up so it's easier to scrape.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#449

Post by oblio »

glogla wrote: post #445
buran77 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, how adapting to EVs is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE is not, I don't get it. That's a very "you-centric" view of the world. Convenience is convenience, regardless of whether it destroys the world or not, and more money is expected to bring more convenience. So very few people say "I'll suffer this winter so the world is destroyed just a little bit less". That's why they…

> Case in point, you probably get how adapting to public transport is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE because you want a personal car is not. Oh for sure. That is why people saying "what about people living in apartments? checkmate, EVs!" annoy me so much - if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car. But people are used to their comforts, so saying that doesn't win…

> Oh for sure. That is why people saying "what about people living in apartments? checkmate, EVs!" annoy me so much - if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car.

There are a ton of valid reasons for someone living in an apartment to still need a car. And rentals are not a solution. Rental companies are a nightmare and rental cars suck.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#450

Post by oblio »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #396
cwalv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I suspect by 2035, not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave in your kitchen in the mid 90's.

By 2035 people won't be driving car-shaped objects, not unless they're professional taxi drivers.

This is super ridiculous. How do you think this will happen? The buyer of the 2022 Toyota Corolla will just be banned from driving it in 2035? In the US they can't even ban guns, you expect individual driving of owned cars to be banned? :-)))
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