This is comedy gold:
>Start the vehicle while it’s plugged in to allow the battery to warm up. “The key is warming that battery up,"
The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
421–430 of 549 posts
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is it that when it comes to transportation the discussion is always talking past each other? "Trucks don't belong in cities for personal transportation." "I need a truck for my farm." "Vehicle transportation is a huge chunk of global warming contributing fuel consumption, so we need to reduce car usage in cities towards more and better public transport, and EVs when possible." "I don't live in a city and the bus…
> No one is talking about making ICE vehicles illegal. Certainly in Europe. Not directly but via a back door: Must not enter the city center in a diesel car No new ICE cars after 2035
Which doesn't make them illegal to own, just impossible to register new ones. And that's ok, especially since all major car makers are in on it.
Diesel cars are an issue due to dust emissions. Most modern, read Euro 6 temp, and above, engines should be more or less fine. How the latter will be controlled and enforced so, excluding older cars from certain places, is trickey.
I have to point out so, this will be a social issue. Well off people will most switch to EVs, one of the reasons I guess why VW and others are diverting marketing budgets from EVs (read Diesel) to EVs. Those that cannot afford EVs will face issues, since it either used petrol cars, with higher consumption, or used diesels, with issues going to some places due to emissions.
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#423Anecdotally last winter, had a Model Y up in maine for a trip home. I arrived at a backwoods house with ~60 miles left. It was around 10 farenheit the next day when I hooked up a 110 volt line to the car. Over the next 30 minutes the mileage dropped to 55 as it took more energy to heat the battery than the line could deliver. I unhooked it and planned to drive 20 miles to the nearest charger, but after 1 mile of trav…
I wish i could afford a house with a well insulated, heated garage. This whole discussion, shows that ev are not for the mass.
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#424Yet another reason why EVs won’t save us from the inefficiencies of car centric transportation. Americans, can we stop this failed experiment and let’s (re)build our cities with public transportation and alternative forms of transportation (ie, biking, walking, micro-mobility). Return the spaces occupied by parking lots, parking garages and use that space to house people. End these implied subsidies on “car housing”.…
Fix the cities first. Fix the crime, and the pollution, and the noise. Give people a way to live without constantly hearing their neighbors through the walls. Give people transit options where they don't need to fear for their physical safety. Give people a place to raise children without worrying about them picking up used needles on the street. Give people space to be something other than interchangeable sardines i…
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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guarantee that you don’t own a all Electric V. I own 2018 model S and I concur with the Op of this thread that’s the case. Charging is a huge pain in cold weather. I have insulated my garage doors and am able to keep the temp at around 45 in cold winters ( I am in Redmond).
A 240V charger, as parent commenter said, more than makes up for whatever losses are inherent in heating the car and battery. I have an uncovered space and it’s fine . Yeah, the battery sucks in the cold, and it takes longer to charge, but realistically it’s not like you need to use your car 24/7. Leaving it for a few hours overnight charges it to full, and you can schedule defrosting or do it from the app so the car…
Surely depends on how cold it is? As well as amperage...
In Sweden there were lot of reports of people being unable to charge with 230V 10A.
Sure, you'd make sure to install a more powerful charger if necessary. But that requires you and everywhere else to be adapted for EVs. Which is a pain.
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#426Earlier quoted context omitted.
Luckily the engines still generate plenty of heat and EVs use modern heat pumps.
Tesla claims to have 90..94% motor efficiency. With model Y using 13kW per hour, even if you count all 6-10% of this as heat, and manage to capture it, it'll still be hardly enough to keep the car at a comfortable temperature without additional heating.
Well, it looks worse than I thought: https://insideevs.com/news/452464/tesla-model-y-heat-pump-sy...
With home air-to-air heat pumps I took COP of 2-3 as a base for heating, it seems that COP=1 is a big deal in a car.
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#427Anecdotally last winter, had a Model Y up in maine for a trip home. I arrived at a backwoods house with ~60 miles left. It was around 10 farenheit the next day when I hooked up a 110 volt line to the car. Over the next 30 minutes the mileage dropped to 55 as it took more energy to heat the battery than the line could deliver. I unhooked it and planned to drive 20 miles to the nearest charger, but after 1 mile of trav…
The easiest solution here was just to plug it in when you arrived, not the next day.
That’s a lesson EV drivers in Norway learn very quickly. If you can’t charge at your destination, plan to visit a quick charger nearby, before arrival while the battery is warm from driving. Even using a quick charger, charging is very slow when the battery is really cold.
Admittedly, I don’t have personal experience below –20 °C (–4 °F). If it drops down to –40 °(C or F), I am not so sure what will happen. But the strategy should remain the same.
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
> your car can fail randomly for an obscure reason Your electric car can fail randomly for an obscure reason too, and good luck getting anyone at all that can fix it. > Remember that a lot of people have to spend 10-15 minutes warming up their cars before they drive them in cold weather. Only because they're idiots. No-one needs to leave a vehicle for 10 minutes to "warm up", even in the coldest of weather. Drive gen…
> Only because they're idiots. Even if we ignore the "heard bad advice" versus "idiot" issue, that's still untrue because there are other reasons besides what's best for the machine. Maybe they aren't in the car, and they're warming it up to be comfortable. Maybe there is ice on the car they need to melt.
Use deicing spray to get the ice off the car. If it's too cold for you in the car, then just sack up and get on with it. You're not going to come to any harm being a wee bit cold for a couple of minutes, and the heater will actually start working quicker if you drive. If the weather is as cold as it gets here in Scotland in winter, the car will *never* warm up sitting idling.
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cold air is denser. Pushing it out of the way saps more energy and drops the effective work done. That makes absolutely no difference at all.
> That makes absolutely no difference at all. That would be very surprising if it were true, given the very large effect density altitude has on airplane performance (engine and wing).
Over what sort of range of height and pressure?
It's just about observable with very light and very aerodynamic aircraft at ground level if you can get them cold enough.
Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's gonna make some difference, but air resistance goes with square of speed and the change in density due to temperature isn't that large.
It’s about -3% change in drag force per +10°C change in temp.
Which is basically nothing.
Opening your window makes far more of a difference.