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California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

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Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#601
post #590
post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because someone spent a few tens of thousand dollars on an electric car doesn't mean they should be willing to drop $200 a night on hotels for a week straight. I disagree. In my opinion if you can't afford to do that a few times per year without financial concern then you have no business spending $60k+ on a car. Having to sleep in your expensive car just so you can afford a vacation is ridiculous. There are m…

Some people assess value independently of their means.

[deleted]

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#602

FSD is a Boondoggle. (Collision/accident avoidance and driver assist systems are not) I don't think we will see a legitimate L5 automation in our lifetimes. Take my 1.5 mile journey to do the morning school run, in a small UK town: - Getting off the driveway, there is a wall that creates a blind spot behind it, often other parents are walking small kids who are shorter than that wall. I can't see behind it. I check d…

Man that first step sounds annoying. We reverse out of our driveway into a blind corner on our street, but at least there aren't too many pedestrians!

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh huh. And did they take money from customers with the promise of full self-driving being just around the corner? Did they take money from customers for a product making the specific claim that it has the "hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver": https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now... Musk will continue to lie abou…

> Musk will continue to lie about it because he thinks that without full self-driving Tesla is worth basically zero Lots of people who buy Teslas don’t care about the self driving at all. They want the best-designed, best-driving, fastest electric cars on the road with the best charging network.

> They want the best-designed, best-driving, fastest electric cars on the road with the best charging network.

Well, Europe's charging infrastructure is the best at the moment and "best driving" is subjective. So do you mean they want a Porsche Taycan in Europe? Or maybe the Audi e-tron GT? Or the Mercedes EQS? Or perhaps the BMW iX?

You'll need to be more specific.

Lucid has started European deliveries (https://www.electrive.com/2022/12/21/lucid-motors-launches-a...) so we can add the Air to our list. As we know, the Lucid Air is great for both range and performance:

https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDpQpcPpuc

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car ownership is a lot cheaper than Uber. It’s not even a question. You could buy an overpriced car that you can’t afford with a high interest rate and it would still be much cheaper. I think you need to go back to first principles on this one.

Let’s say I use a car once a year. Just how would owning a car be cheaper than getting an uber that one time per year? Now do the same math for driving 5 times a day. Do you see why you can’t just say “Car ownership is cheaper than Uber”, unqualified?

Really? … Well, that is just an excellent point …

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#605

Mainstream full self driving would just create massive traffic and gridlock - pointless in the end. The induced demand would outweigh the benefits. States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable. High frequency busses in the interim with rail transit is the real solution. Current self driving technology plus some key infrastructure changes with dedicated bus lanes and prio…

Induced demand is a myth perpetuated by bus-pilled dorks.

Induced demand is a weird edge case that means the road network causes each trip to cover more distance. Usually what they mean is latent demand, which is the number of people who already wanted to go somewhere, but gave up and stayed home due to traffic on roads that haven’t kept up with population.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic would get somewhat worse. People would be willing to commute somewhat farther because they could spend that time reading the paper or working instead of driving the car. Errands that used to be annoying enough to delay get more frequent as well for the same reason. If we get to a car share model, where you subscribe and pay per mile, that might offset some car use. Really we need all of the above - self-drivi…

These are really odd predictions. People would be running more errands instead of leaving them on the last minute? It seems like a definite stretch to me to think that it would make traffic worse. Also some people enjoy driving and drive out of enjoyment.

Sure. I live on one side of a highway; getting to the other side during rush hour is a PITA (limited bridge crossings). So anything that requires me to cross the highway gets put off until the weekend. If the car drivers itself and I can read a book, those errands likely get done as they pop up.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metric to judge assisted driving technologies is primarily safety. Driving is not safe and I suspect will appear insane to a future generation. Which generation and how soon is another question. However, what the US needs to massive investments in rail, which address both safety and traffic.

> Driving is not safe This only appears true because we've made our entire world so safe that we can call one fatality every 100 million miles dangerous. Given everything we use cars for and the immense utility of them, being driven almost exclusively by amateurs ... cars are remarkably safe. And if you could find a way to reliably remove the 1% that cause most of the problems, it would be even safer.

My sad related factoid to this is that suicide overtook car accidents as the leading cause of death of teenagers in Colorado. This is because although suicide is a worsening problem, crash safety and driver education have improved much faster than the suicide rate has been rising, causing them to flip for the first time.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#608
post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because someone spent a few tens of thousand dollars on an electric car doesn't mean they should be willing to drop $200 a night on hotels for a week straight. My uncle bought a Tesla 3 (coincidentally, to replace his 20-year-old totalled Jetta) because he needs to drive several hours to the office a few times a month for 2-3 days at a time, and the silent climate control and flat trunk floor means he can cheapl…

> Just because someone spent a few tens of thousand dollars on an electric car doesn't mean they should be willing to drop $200 a night on hotels for a week straight. I disagree. In my opinion if you can't afford to do that a few times per year without financial concern then you have no business spending $60k+ on a car. Having to sleep in your expensive car just so you can afford a vacation is ridiculous. There are m…

As per my uncle's situation, he works for the US army, is due to retire in a year or two with a full pension, and moved to be closer to family and friends. He mostly works remotely. It being the army, sometimes he has to go to the nearby base 20 minutes away, but other times he has to go to the far away base for some reason or another.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#609
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also love my Model Y. It’s by far the best car I’ve ever owned or driven. But the software has stagnated in favor of “FSD” beta releases. Autopilot on freeways is great. I use it all the time and it works. I wish Tesla would focus on getting that to a level 3-type system - something where I can take my hands off the wheel and just be ready to take over after 10-15 seconds. It feels close enough that it could be don…

To add to one of your points, The Tesla auto park is legitimately awful. https://youtu.be/nsb2XBAIWyA Every time we try it for a spot to reverse into, the linear regression it must be doing is so apparent. It violently tries to turn left and right rapidly trying to straighten itself. It works better for parallel spots but often gives up half way because it made a bad angle choice. We’ve tried it in various models in…

LOL. They did much better job parking Falcon 9

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#610

I live in Boston. You know all those stereotypes about Boston drivers and Boston traffic? Largely accurate. If they ever do succeed in creating an AI powerful enough to drive a car safely in this Commonwealth, I want that AI curing cancer and inventing time travel, not bothering with trifles like driving.

I believe Taylor Ogan did a drive with FSD through Boston with the results that you would expect.

What strikes me about this is that the area he's driving has to be the easiest area to drive within like 20 miles. I'd like to see what happens if someone tries FSD say, around Powder House Square rotary in Somerville in the evening rush hour on a November night with rain pouring down. But I wouldn't like to be in the vehicle in question.
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