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Ask HN: Racism in London

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Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#41

Post by [deleted] »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #34
ChildOfChaos wrote: post #30

Are you sure it is anything to do with Racism? I mean you have no evidence of that and it's a large assumption on your part? London has a huge black community and non-white residents, it's a very multicultural place, I would be surprised if the actual reason is pure racism, particularly at a restaurant. If the restaurant has hired black women to work there, it's a bit odd that they are turning away customers for bein…

As someone whose been bullied in the workplace later proven to be based on sexual orientation (but not at a time where I had any weight behind any prejudice accusations), I’m gonna ahead and say piss right off with your ‘are you sure’ junk. Modern racism is much more under the covers than to kill a mockingbird.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#42

Post by miiiiiike »

cassianoleal wrote: post #38
_Wintermute wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lived in the UK for 25 years with a Polish surname, I've never experienced this at all. It's more likely due to someone with an American accent asking strangers questions, people immediately think loud tourist and stay away.

GP's story seems highly unlikely, or at least is missing crucial details. I've lived in London for the last 8 years, and a total of around 11. I'm neither white nor European, let alone British. I have many friends, Polish, Turkish, British of various ethnicities, Africans from a few different countries, Middle Easterners, Americans (mostly South and Central), you name it.... I have never heard of any of them being tr…

Your comment has a harsh edge to it. I'm going to assume healthy skepticism and move on.

He doesn't really talk about it openly. That's kind of the reason for the change, to not draw attention to it.

I think he listed the story as the reason for name change in the court docs. So be skeptical all you like but I'm over 99% sure that part can be proven true.

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#43

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

porknubbins wrote: post #39
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone whose been bullied in the workplace later proven to be based on sexual orientation (but not at a time where I had any weight behind any prejudice accusations), I’m gonna ahead and say piss right off with your ‘are you sure’ junk. Modern racism is much more under the covers than to kill a mockingbird.

I have learned over the years that when you go around looking for subtle discrimination or microagressions against you, you basically activate two dangerous parts of your “brain” which are fear/threat detection and pattern recognition. Its much better to have thick skin and count only real overt discrimination, or you can get bitter and paranoid too easily.

Sure, but disregarding behaviours and telling someone that they’re imagining an issue is gaslighting..

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#44

Post by porknubbins »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #43
porknubbins wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have learned over the years that when you go around looking for subtle discrimination or microagressions against you, you basically activate two dangerous parts of your “brain” which are fear/threat detection and pattern recognition. Its much better to have thick skin and count only real overt discrimination, or you can get bitter and paranoid too easily.

Sure, but disregarding behaviours and telling someone that they’re imagining an issue is gaslighting..

I’m sorry if I came across as dismissing your situation. Covert discrimination exists as a real problem, but I have seen people go down a dark path when they try to look for it too much.

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#45

Post by ashwagary »

Expect varying degrees of racism and colorism in pockets across Europe. It's not uncommon.

I would recommend giving your hard earned money to people that appreciate it. In my experience the non-racists offer tastier cuisine.

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#46

Post by ChildOfChaos »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #43
porknubbins wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have learned over the years that when you go around looking for subtle discrimination or microagressions against you, you basically activate two dangerous parts of your “brain” which are fear/threat detection and pattern recognition. Its much better to have thick skin and count only real overt discrimination, or you can get bitter and paranoid too easily.

Sure, but disregarding behaviours and telling someone that they’re imagining an issue is gaslighting..

But you also can't just dismiss things as gaslighting and use that as an excuse to claim something that isn't there, is, that is as bad as calling everything you disagree with fake news.

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#47

Post by cassianoleal »

miiiiiike wrote: post #42
cassianoleal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP's story seems highly unlikely, or at least is missing crucial details. I've lived in London for the last 8 years, and a total of around 11. I'm neither white nor European, let alone British. I have many friends, Polish, Turkish, British of various ethnicities, Africans from a few different countries, Middle Easterners, Americans (mostly South and Central), you name it.... I have never heard of any of them being tr…

Your comment has a harsh edge to it. I'm going to assume healthy skepticism and move on. He doesn't really talk about it openly. That's kind of the reason for the change, to not draw attention to it. I think he listed the story as the reason for name change in the court docs. So be skeptical all you like but I'm over 99% sure that part can be proven true.

Sorry if it came across that way. It came indeed from skepticism, and I am fully aware that my personal experience doesn't invalidate the possibility of your friend's story.

I just think there are too many combined unlikely elements in it, and that it's more likely to have been of a personal nature rather than any kind of profiling or generalisation due to his name or passport.

Obviously, I could be very wrong and your friend might be the loveliest person in the world who also happened to be very very unlucky in his dealings with the Brits.

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#48

Post by lazybreather »

konaraddi wrote: post #21
lazybreather wrote: post #8

A bit off-topic, but something unique to India is reverse-racism, if I can call it that. Many a times, me and friends (mostly all male) try to enter a decent restaurant/pub only to be shown away saying its all booked for the evening. We could clearly see that was not the case. Even if stag entry is generally allowed at those places. But they happily welcome foreigners (of all kinds) right after they deny us. We India…

If this was the norm in India then the food service business would collapse because there are far far more Indians than foreigners even in most or all of the touristy areas. There’s likely a more plausible explanation for you and your guy friends being denied (e.g. visiting a restaurant in a touristy area that prefers foreigners to take advantage of the diff in purchasing power by charging more or expecting more in t…

I should have mentioned, our appearance had to do something with the situation. Majority of the crowd is Indian in such restaurants, but with clean and 'westernized' attire. Our experience was not unsurprising becasue we had seen/read several such instances all across the country. In fact, there is a law passed in Tamil Nadu mandating all public places to allow folks with Dhotis or face license termination. This is to peotect the interests of natives. Quite a bit of what is mentioned in your comment is loaded. I wouldn't want to get into details and am happy to let your opinions be. Only thing, I am well aware that I am writing on HN, a place which inherently forces you to be reasonable and grounded. Writing here takes 10x more time than usual. So yeah, my intellectual arrival can never really arrive.

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#49

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

ChildOfChaos wrote: post #46
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but disregarding behaviours and telling someone that they’re imagining an issue is gaslighting..

But you also can't just dismiss things as gaslighting and use that as an excuse to claim something that isn't there, is, that is as bad as calling everything you disagree with fake news.

So to rephrase, your comment suggests that you can dismiss claims of gaslighting as ‘seeing things that aren’t there’. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

Re: Ask HN: Racism in London

#50

Post by miiiiiike »

cassianoleal wrote: post #47
miiiiiike wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment has a harsh edge to it. I'm going to assume healthy skepticism and move on. He doesn't really talk about it openly. That's kind of the reason for the change, to not draw attention to it. I think he listed the story as the reason for name change in the court docs. So be skeptical all you like but I'm over 99% sure that part can be proven true.

Sorry if it came across that way. It came indeed from skepticism, and I am fully aware that my personal experience doesn't invalidate the possibility of your friend's story. I just think there are too many combined unlikely elements in it, and that it's more likely to have been of a personal nature rather than any kind of profiling or generalisation due to his name or passport. Obviously, I could be very wrong and yo…

No need to apologize.

My comment had the 3-4 lowlights of the trip but there were many, many highlights.. Like the time we went the wrong way on the train and needed to catch a cab so we wouldn't be late for a first impression meeting. For some reason that I can't fully recall (didn't take cards?) we couldn't pay the cabbie. He knew early on in the trip but he took us the full distance. He said "Everyone needs a lift now and again." as we got out. Wouldn't give us his contact info either. Couldn't pay him back, had to pay it forward.

We LOVED London. I want to live there for a year if I ever get the chance. But, shitty people are everywhere. Gotta keep an eye out.

Luckily, lots of people are great no matter where you go.

edit

I found a previous comment where I talked a bit more about some of the good stuff: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33830648

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