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Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

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Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#181

Post by treis »

BurningFrog wrote: post #146
zdragnar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is unreasonable for them to have blocked it, for the simple reason it would allow banks to engage in businesses that are violating federal law. The only true policy is a coherent policy- anything else is just the whims of whoever holds executive fiat. It should just be fully legalized.

If a criminal has a bank account, it's insane to me that that means the bank is engaged in a criminal business.

I don't see how it's insane. In fact, it seems perfectly logical to me that you can't knowingly help people commit crimes.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#182

Post by rosnd »

akiselev wrote: post #95
cm2187 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also lots of references to being "raided by the feds" which I don't understand. Is it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level?

They’re still liable for paying taxes, which they do largely by mailing the IRS shoeboxes full of cash. By paying taxes they’re essentially admitting to a felony to the US government, which makes them trivially easy to raid. That said, raids are relatively rare now due to executive order and the Oakland mess. In 2012 the DEA raided Oaksterdam [1] without properly notifying the Oakland PD, tying them up right as a loc…

> By paying taxes they’re essentially admitting to a felony to the US government, which makes them trivially easy to raid.

That's not how it works, taxpayers enjoy fifth amendment protections against self incrimination.

IRS can't share this information with other LE without a warrant anyway.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#183

Post by dragonwriter »

cm2187 wrote: post #68
AlbertCory wrote: post #61

In the first episode of Tulsa King (which is on a streaming service, so I haven't watched any more of it), Sylvester Stallone is a mobster who gets out of prison after a long term, and is surprised to see a marijuana dealership. He realizes that they must keep a lot of cash, because banks won't deal with them. So he sees his opportunity and becomes their "partner." If it's a legal business, banks should not discrimin…

There are also lots of references to being "raided by the feds" which I don't understand. Is it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level?

> it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level?

Yes, though there is a federal policy against most enforcement activity where use is allowed by state law. But, yes, its still illegal, and those making lots of money in (or even as major investors in firms in) the industry are violating the drug kingpin statute and, were the non-enforcement policy to be removed, coild suddenly find themselves facing 20+ year, or life, sentences in federal prison.

This has a significant effect on who is in the industry and how they conduct business.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#184

Post by Me1000 »

gamegoblin wrote: post #104
GeneralMayhem wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They had full control and could have legalized it That's not how the Senate works. A 50-50 "majority" is not full control. In any case, it's pretty silly to blame the party that's on your side for not being able to overcome the bad-faith obstructionism of the opposing party. It's not about political "footballs", it's about having finite time and public attention to be able to get things done. If every single fight h…

Yes, the current fillibuster rules require a 60-40 supermajority to get anything done, but the fillubuster rule itself can be changed with a simple majority of 50%+1. But the incentive structure is not there to actually change this rule -- both parties benefit from it.

That’s also not how the Senate works. Senators are beholden to their respective constituencies, not the party of which they’re a member. A conservative Democrat from West Virginia has more job security when he runs against his party sometimes.

Blaming the party rather than individual Senators is not a helpful way of looking at the problem.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#185

Post by gilbert_vanova »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #126
josephcsible wrote: post #40

The headline isn't true. Cannabis is illegal in all of America, since it's still on Schedule I at the federal level. While some states may have removed their own laws against it, that in itself doesn't make it legal there.

I've started wondering how much my views on civil ethics are influenced by (likely) having Asperger's. I absolutely hate having a persistent divergence between laws on the books, and what's enforced. In my view, that gap exists only to be exploited by villains: both those who would selfishly break the law, and those who would capriciously enforce it. Policies like this make chumps of anyone who obeys such laws, invit…

The US in particular is occupied by many competing powers. No one group has sweeping control of anything; most everyone is held in a deathgrip by interests to either side of their desired positions.

From city councils to the oval office, a lot of leaders have a short list of who's approval they need and can't get to do anything at all.

Federalism invites this type of incongruity. The silver lining is that it's a game that keeps a certain type of person preoccupied so as not to pursue worse ways of exploiting the rest of us.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#186

Post by jjulius »

salawat wrote: post #157
jjulius wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you absolutely can fly with it. TSA has gone on the record, at least in local newspapers, stating that they defer to local police if they find cannabis. If it's for personal use, local PD won't do anything other than suggest you throw it away or else risk punishment if you're flying somewhere legal. I've researched this extensively before flying out of specific airports in legal states up and down the west coast…

That still does not change it to being legal, the law is still on the books, and no repeal has passed. It is still illegal, and all it will take is someone plopping into the Exec seat and getting a hair, then it is back to square 1. Legal exposure is kind of like HIV, herpes, or COVID. There is a big difference between "I don't have it", and "It's not an issue right now", wherein the exact state of affairs drasticall…

As one of the comments above you suggested, the overton window has shifted. And that's precisely because states have legalized it at the state level. It has become more normalized and more accepted, and it's federal legalization has earned more support because of states legalizing it. The further we dive into states legalizing it, the more pressure is put on the federal government to legalize it precisely because of these grey areas.

Because we've reached this point, you're not going to see someone come into the exec seat and target weed. It's just not going to happen. The cat's out of the bag and it's not going back in.

So yes, things have changed in the grand scheme of things. This is progress, even if it's a fucked up legal grey area.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#187

Post by janalsncm »

scifibestfi wrote: post #56
gamegoblin wrote: post #16

Prediction: Dems will make a move on federal legalization in the months before the 2024 presidential election, or at least make federal legalization a major election issue. A lot of right wing / libertarian adjacent people were hoping Trump would come out in favor of it as a 2020 election issue, to outflank Biden on at least one issue. It didn't happen, but I bet it would have made the election a bit closer -- it wou…

It sucks how everything is a political football instead of just doing the right thing. They had full control and could have legalized it. But no, they keep holding onto just to drag voters along every election.

> political football

That’s what a democracy is. Democracies aren’t nicer places to live because our politicians are nice people. It’s because our interests happen to align with those of politicians. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

CGP Grey had a nice video on this, which I plagiarized for the comment above:

https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#188

Post by janalsncm »

anon84873628 wrote: post #178
scifibestfi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sucks how everything is a political football instead of just doing the right thing. They had full control and could have legalized it. But no, they keep holding onto just to drag voters along every election.

Really we should blame all the executive administrations for not forcing the DEA to do their job properly. Keeping cannabis as a Schedule 1 is completely scientifically unjustified. There was already an existing legal framework available to legalize the drug. But since the DEA/FDA is so corrupt, we have to fall back to checks & balances available in the states and Congress.

Vast majority of cannabis arrests are at the local level. Even a federal legalization law would not stop that.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#189

Post by wishfish »

perardi wrote: post #141

This is frustrating, because I think it’s a near certainty marijuana will be legalized federally. If I was a betting man, which I’m not, certainly not enough to mess with prediction markets, I’d call myself 95% certain. All this ambiguity is just grinding inefficiency in the meantime. Look at all that states where this is legal or decriminalized: https://disa.com/maps/marijuana-legality-by-state And even in states wh…

We have something very close to national legalization right now. Fortunately, it seems to be flying under the radar so red state legislatures aren't acting against it.

By "legalization", I'm talking mostly about THC edibles. There are now hemp-based edibles which contain as much THC as traditional MJ edibles. Legal in all states. Achieved thanks to the Hemp Act and some creative processing of hemp.

It's an interesting wrinkle to this whole mess.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#190

Post by eikenberry »

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #147
perardi wrote: post #141

This is frustrating, because I think it’s a near certainty marijuana will be legalized federally. If I was a betting man, which I’m not, certainly not enough to mess with prediction markets, I’d call myself 95% certain. All this ambiguity is just grinding inefficiency in the meantime. Look at all that states where this is legal or decriminalized: https://disa.com/maps/marijuana-legality-by-state And even in states wh…

I think right now is exactly where I want weed to be in society: a taboo, not normalized in the mainstream, you get in trouble if you’re stupid with it, but otherwise if you’re just an occasional user you can get it just fine. This is pretty much perfect to me. What I don’t want is broad normalization of it. Maybe some cultures do just fine with that, but the trend is America has been to maximize the individual liber…

The big downside to porn as it stands in the US today is the fact that it is still taboo. It keeps the workers in the industry from getting proper respect and representation, so they are taken advantage a lot. IE. The problem isn't that it's legal and everywhere, the problem is that it is still taboo. Sex is such an integral part of being a human and I find our shame of it sad.
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