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California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

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Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#341

Post by Nullabillity »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #332
Nullabillity wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic is _people_. "Induced demand" just means that more people are able to get around in a presumably less miserable way, rather than you (who are presumably already driving if gridlock is a problem to you) getting a better experience. And no, buses or rail won't provide a good experience until they're so frequent and have so many stops that they basically end up being ridiculously overbuilt taxis in all but the h…

10-minute bus service is totally achievable in pretty much every city. Toronto does it. And Toronto is not a dense city.

In the outskirts? On every line? Connected to everything?

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#342

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #337
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stuff above this says exactly what the FSD package is. All this fine print is adding is that you will get new features as they are released. In 12/2022 this is a very good description of what the package does (and, IMO, it undersells the capability: autosteer on city streets works really well for me with the new FSD package) > Full Self-Driving Capability $15,000 > All functionality of Basic Autopilot and Enhance…

Again, to repeat my point (which I didn't think was very confusing), the things described in the small-point text are all fine. But they cannot in any reasonable world be summarized by the product name "Full Self Driving." Insofar as California is encouraging Tesla to name their products more accurately, that seems like an absolute good. This point holds even if I don't go into the fact that both autosteer/autopilot…

> they cannot in any reasonable world be summarized by the product name "Full Self Driving."

I think it’s fine to name a placeholder for a feature that’s in development according to the final state. Especially if the feature gives you access to the most recent developments towards that feature.

As for the other stuff, the FUD online about FSD is completely inconsistent with my daily experience of using it. It’s by no means perfect, but it does a good job for my normal driving around SoCal

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#343

Post by 93po »

endisneigh wrote: post #16

Mainstream full self driving would just create massive traffic and gridlock - pointless in the end. The induced demand would outweigh the benefits. States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable. High frequency busses in the interim with rail transit is the real solution. Current self driving technology plus some key infrastructure changes with dedicated bus lanes and prio…

There is no evidence to support this theory, and in fact the opposite is likely true. Full self driving would lend itself tremendously to increased public transit options. And tremendously lower car ownership.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#344

Post by 93po »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #307

Should have happened sooner. I love my Model Y. It's the most fun car I've ever owned. It's also the most comfortable on long road trips and I can sleep in it in climate-controlled comfort without generating a gas that could kill me. I leave the house every morning with a full tank and never have to stop at a gas station. And my cost per mile is 1/4 what it was with an ICE car. I just wish Tesla would focus on this s…

> I just wish Tesla would focus on this stuff without hyping an AI feature that can never happen.

Why can that never happen?

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#345

Post by warning26 »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #86
alistairSH wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic would get somewhat worse. People would be willing to commute somewhat farther because they could spend that time reading the paper or working instead of driving the car. Errands that used to be annoying enough to delay get more frequent as well for the same reason. If we get to a car share model, where you subscribe and pay per mile, that might offset some car use. Really we need all of the above - self-drivi…

Why do we “need less personal car ownership?” It’s not clear to me why that’s a key goal. I also think that’s just not going to happen, not until the flying cats with cities in the skies is a reality.

Personally I am very excited for the urban flying cats

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#346

Post by warning26 »

bushbaba wrote: post #59
alistairSH wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic would get somewhat worse. People would be willing to commute somewhat farther because they could spend that time reading the paper or working instead of driving the car. Errands that used to be annoying enough to delay get more frequent as well for the same reason. If we get to a car share model, where you subscribe and pay per mile, that might offset some car use. Really we need all of the above - self-drivi…

You could have a full self driving only lane that’s allows speeds up to 200MPH. Self driving cars could have better reaction times allowing for higher highway density with faster speeds.

Right, and what happens when Joe Schmo pulls into the 200MPH self driving lane and gets his car exploded, along with causing a 10 self-driving-car pileup?

Or, for the purpose of discussion, let’s assume that the lane is completely separated. What if there’s some unexpected condition that causes a crash? Even with vehicle to vehicle communication, can the other cars behind it really stop in time at 200MPH?

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#347

Post by 93po »

Animats wrote: post #306

California was the first state to take autonomous vehicles seriously.[1] DMV licenses them. There's three levels of license. The "learner's permit" is testing with a safety driver. The autonomous license is testing with no safety driver. Deployment is carrying real customers for money. Waymo and Cruise have deployment licenses, which requires testing and evaluation by DMV. You can see their cars running around San Fr…

Waymo and Cruise deploy in extremely limited public situations, including only in the middle of the night, and have been in the news a lot recently for a serious of crashes and software failures, some of which caused a pile up of around a dozen autonomous vehicles just blocking the road that had to be removed with tow trucks and employees. The scope of what Tesla is doing is vastly larger, more future proof, more reliable, and much more difficult to achieve.

Additionally, Tesla's model right now is to have a driver in the seat. They aren't trying to deploy a car without anyone in the driver seat. There's no need for them to have any license other than the one they have.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#348

Post by 93po »

t0mas88 wrote: post #254
cryptoegorophy wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You definitely need to try FSD or at least watch some latest YouTube videos.

There are many videos on YouTube with it failing these kinds of examples indeed.

There are also a lot of videos of humans failing these examples.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#349

Post by 93po »

croes wrote: post #214
drno123 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk bought Twitter and fired 50% od the staff without Twitter crashing, which exposed how overstaffed and overpayed thise guys were

Too soon to say that. Even if they are understaffed now it wouldn't immediately collapse.

Performance has literally improved since the layoffs.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#350

Post by redox99 »

bilsbie wrote: post #312
bilsbie wrote: post #297

The latest self driving videos are looking really impressive. Maybe we’re getting close.

Wow what did I say. Guess I’m not hating the right things?

I also got downvoted for giving my opinion on self driving, so I guess that's the reason.
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