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Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

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Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#71

Post by trillic »

eternalban wrote: post #26
jjulius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it inaccurate? Cannabis is legal in much of the country (at the state level) and the businesses are blocked from much of the banking system because it's federally illegal. Edit: OP, if you're going to completely change the last sentence of your post after people respond, which then changes your point, at least highlight that you've made a significant change.

As of now, you can definitely get your daily supply of Cannabis if you want. There are a lot of little businesses that legally sell it. So these federal laws are not preventing you from exercising your legal right to get high in e.g. NY state. I would like to get the pulse of hn on this: What do we think if e.g. the Coca-Cola Company got in the pot business? Is the fact that these Federal constraints are keeping big…

There are lots of really big businesses that sell it too.

Cresco Labs, Verano Holdings, Curaleaf.

Going to a Cresco run "Sunnyside" dispensary is like the Apple store of pot. It's kind of ridiculous.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#72

Post by ffggffggj »

flagsrule wrote: post #60
tyre wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the US fought a war over slavery. The "states' rights" framing of the US Civil War skips over which specific right the southerns states were willing to die for. It wasn't abstract, though it was papered over as such. The history of later southern political leaders (e.g. Richard Russell) confirms that the fundamental issue was the enslavement (ideal, for them) or segregation and oppression of blacks in the US. Whi…

The civil war was not fought over slavery. The union chose to free the slaves because it hurt the south economically more than it hurt the north economically.

Sorry, this is simply not true. The declarations of secession explicitly spell this out. You are welcome to read them yourself, here is one for example https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

Mississippi’s is even more explicit https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp - “Our position is thoroughly identified with slavery — the greatest material interest of the world”

The civil war was fought because slave states wanted to force slavery on other parts of our country, outside their own borders.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#73

Post by jliptzin »

cm2187 wrote: post #68
AlbertCory wrote: post #61

In the first episode of Tulsa King (which is on a streaming service, so I haven't watched any more of it), Sylvester Stallone is a mobster who gets out of prison after a long term, and is surprised to see a marijuana dealership. He realizes that they must keep a lot of cash, because banks won't deal with them. So he sees his opportunity and becomes their "partner." If it's a legal business, banks should not discrimin…

There are also lots of references to being "raided by the feds" which I don't understand. Is it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level?

Yes

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#74

Post by kube-system »

33955985 wrote: post #66
kube-system wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why I'm specifically criticizing the framing of the headline. It's celebrating a victory that hasn't happened. A better headline would be "Most of America wants cannabis to be legal, but federal law still bans it." I think that implying that it's "legal" in certain places, which has happened repeatedly over the last decade, is part of the problem. If everyone thinks cannabis is already legal, then who is goi…

It’s not misleading. It reflects the lived experience of most Americans. That it’s “technically illegal” under federal law means nothing to anyone except — as the article points out — for the industry itself. And since when were national laws made by consumers? Federal legalization will happen when a big industry partner wants it it be legalized and not before.

The law is inherently technical. "Technically illegal" is simply "illegal".

And it is completely false that this only affects the "industry itself". There are other federal laws that concern the rights and privileges of people who use illegal drugs. For instance, if you use federally illegal drugs, you may not legally purchase (or possess) a firearm. There are other examples in terms of employment, etc.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#75

Post by gamegoblin »

BossingAround wrote: post #62
gamegoblin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dems explicitly did not make legalization a notable part of the 2020 national campaign. They focused on making the campaign a referendum on Trump in general and COVID in particular. This was a good strategic play. My comment is that making the 2024 election a referendum on legalization (and a few other big issues like abortion) will likely be the good strategic play. You could imagine a future, though, where they…

> My comment is that making the 2024 election a referendum on legalization My take is that most people don't see cannabis legalization as an important-enough issue. It's kind of "would be nice" issue that's overweighted by issues like economy, democracy, and immigration. I'm not in the US, but that's my only explanation for why hasn't cannabis been legalized on the federal level yet, i.e. that people simply don't car…

That's totally possible. There is definitely a potential timeline where it just gets basically ignored.

The big divide is really by age. Older voters (in both parties) tend to oppose it. 72% of people under 30 are pro-legalization, but only 30% of people older than 75 are. The average for all US adults is 60%.

Younger voters' low turnout messes up the calculus here. But as soon as the number of young voters you'd gain exceeds the number of old voters a candidate would lose, you'll start to see this play out, and I think we're really close to that tipping point.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#76

Post by BossingAround »

eternalban wrote: post #26
jjulius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it inaccurate? Cannabis is legal in much of the country (at the state level) and the businesses are blocked from much of the banking system because it's federally illegal. Edit: OP, if you're going to completely change the last sentence of your post after people respond, which then changes your point, at least highlight that you've made a significant change.

As of now, you can definitely get your daily supply of Cannabis if you want. There are a lot of little businesses that legally sell it. So these federal laws are not preventing you from exercising your legal right to get high in e.g. NY state. I would like to get the pulse of hn on this: What do we think if e.g. the Coca-Cola Company got in the pot business? Is the fact that these Federal constraints are keeping big…

> What do we think if e.g. the Coca-Cola Company got in the pot business? Is the fact that these Federal constraints are keeping big business out of the pot business good or bad?

That's one of the biggest fears of cannabis producers in states where it's currently legal, and it's actually a reason for some of the small business not supporting federal legalization. They don't want Amazon to invest billions of dollars, completely destroying current dispensaries.

I think the problem is that in the world of billion to trillion dollar corporations, like Amazon or Wallmart, the business can't be mediocre to survive. In the past, simply being "all right" got you by, but big corporations can do "all right" products. To survive nowadays, businesses must differentiate from the corporations to survive.

For the consumers, I think corporations taking over "all right" businesses is a good thing. For the society at large..? This probably shrinks the middle class throughout the world, and increases inequality in multiple ways, e.g. the inequality between the one CEO (and upper management) and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of employees. So I'd personally count that as a "probably pretty horrible" reality.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#77

Post by trillic »

kube-system wrote: post #64
eternalban wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of now, you can definitely get your daily supply of Cannabis if you want. There are a lot of little businesses that legally sell it. So these federal laws are not preventing you from exercising your legal right to get high in e.g. NY state. I would like to get the pulse of hn on this: What do we think if e.g. the Coca-Cola Company got in the pot business? Is the fact that these Federal constraints are keeping big…

All of those businesses that sell cannabis are in violation of the Controlled Substances Act. They are, quite plainly, operating businesses that are illegal under federal law. The reason you don't see too many DEA raids (anymore) is that the feds don't have any money to enforce it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohrabacher%E2%80%93Farr_amend...

The overton window has shifted. It is no longer popular for armies of feds to raid businesses acting entirely within state laws and only performing intrastate commerce.

The President of the United States, head of Executive branch, directed with enforcement of Federal law has pardoned ALL federal marijuana convictions and doesn't plan to pursue more.

It is effectively legal federally, no matter how much that makes you clutch your pearls.

The current federal government has determined it to be an issue left to the states. Reducing the influence the federal government has in everyday American's lives, it's left the Republican party in quite an ironic situation.

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#78

Post by galleywest200 »

jliptzin wrote: post #73
cm2187 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also lots of references to being "raided by the feds" which I don't understand. Is it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level?

Yes

While still federally illegal, they have not done these raids regularly for years. In 2015 a judge ordered the federal government to stop going after medical places in legal states [1]. If I recall correctly the Obama Admin ordered the DEA to stop busting shops in recreational legal states too. I am unsure if the GOP's recent tenure in the Whitehouse reversed these common sense ideas.

[1] https://time.com/4080110/dea-medical-marijuana-california-ru...

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#79

Post by ClumsyPilot »

33955985 wrote: post #54
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #27

UN has moved to stop resticting it's use for medicinal purposes, but it is still banned for private consumption. As a signatory to the UN drugs convention, US has voted againsy decriminalisation. This is a clumsy summary, ANAL https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/12/1079132

Your comment implies the US is somehow bound to this agreement for the making of federal laws. This is not the case and never has been.

I do not inderstand what you are arguing against.

Are you saying US is not a signatory to the convention?

Are you saying that US is not bound by international agreements, treaties and contracts that it has signed up to, of it's own accord?

Are you saying that US can leave the agreement at any time? (I beleive it can)

Or are you saying that is US breaks the obligations it signed up to, the UN cannot hold it accountable?

Re: Cannabis is legal in most US states but federal laws block businesses from banks

#80

Post by Sebguer »

In some California counties, and other adjacent states with similarly-minded sheriffs, the police treat armored cars carrying funds from legal dispensaries as piggy banks where they get to take the cash and the business is responsible for proving its legality. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-01-28/marijuan...
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