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Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

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Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#131
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, this is a complete farce. You’d think by this point google could offer a simple checkbox in the settings of your gmail account: “Do you want this account to be extra secure and for us to lock someone out of it with any activity deemed suspicious?” And then when you don’t click that box they don’t arbitrarily lock your account. But they don’t. Because they’re a dumpster fire company.

I'm not going to try to convince anyone that has their mind made up about "dumpster fire" companies or whatever. For anyone else reading, I'll just say that we all know there are tradeoffs between security and usability and we can actually have a good-faith discussion about that if we want to.

The pure, utilitarian calculation is rather simple. Anytime you beef up the security policy, it tends to decrease the (permanent) hijacking and increases the lockout. From the point of view of original owners access (i.e. availability), they are equivalent in terms of losing access to the account. Because the hijacking breaches the private information and it also gives hijacker further utility for other illegal activity, hijacking is worse in general.

Thus, as long as the total number of hijacking+lockout decreases, it is a useful policy from the utilitarian perspective. Of course, hijacked people don't cry for help as much, and neither they blame Google as much.

People think a better customer service would somehow solve the lockout problem, but they need to understand that customer service has the same hijacking vs lockout problem, and they can only help if they have better identity verification methods available to them - e.g. if Google asked for government ID for opening a Google account, this would work - but if Google did that, people would scream. Without properly established identity verification methods, the customer service can't improve the precision and the recall. Thus, the current choice for the users is to use a better identity verification method - like security keys and using Advanced Protection, as non-phishable auth does not need complex and elaborate heuristic based protection, and set up a chain of recovery accounts, with all accounts using the security keys and/or Advanced Protection.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#132
post #5

Yikes! good luck, hope it works out. This is scary. Gmail is still, by far, the best email app. Something like this could happen to me and, I suspect, a lot of other people.

> Gmail is still, by far, the best email app.

I find this opinion absurd. It is an e-mail client. Even if it did perform the tasks that an e-mail client needs to perform somewhat better than all other clients, the loss of autonomy makes it a terrible deal, even for non-technical users.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#133

This is probably the #500 post on HN that reads "help I've been locked out of my Google account for Kafkaesque/inexplicable reasons and I have nobody to reach out to". If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Do yourself a favour in 2023: drop Google and all the filthy excrement that they produce. There's plenty of much better alternatives, and from a purely market…

[flagged]

In my opinion, the issue with Google's products is not and never really has been that they're "low quality", it's that, when you DO have problems with them, there is absolutely no recourse or support option. The reason that the parent mentioned that there have been 500 support threads for someone being locked out of their Gmail (or site de-listed, or literally any other change that Google has the ability to make) is that there is no accountability or infrastructure to get support.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#134
This is something I'm not certain but worth a try. I have also advised something very similar to someone who lost their parent's gmail ID access.

If you already have another Google ID or your partner/spouse/relative, upgrade to one of Google's paid service such as the Google One. Now, talk to a human customer care for Google One and seek help. I was able to talk a real person with an issue with Google One and the person on the other end knows a whole lot of details (which I was not expecting to be a regular information).

Yes, that might cost you one month's of Google One but worth a try.

Btw, I have never figure out how to talk to a person even when I have 3+ Google Workspace for Business accounts.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#135
post #105

This is probably the #500 post on HN that reads "help I've been locked out of my Google account for Kafkaesque/inexplicable reasons and I have nobody to reach out to". If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Do yourself a favour in 2023: drop Google and all the filthy excrement that they produce. There's plenty of much better alternatives, and from a purely market…

I'm currently converting so many disgruntled LastPass users to Chrome's built-in password manager. It's fantastic and I love Google. What is your opinion on that?

I'd say if something is important—as in it would be a huge mess if you were locked out of it suddenly—it's a good idea to pay for it.

You can switch browsers and search engines at the drop of a hat. Primarily email, password manager, and long term document storage, not so much.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#136

This is probably the #500 post on HN that reads "help I've been locked out of my Google account for Kafkaesque/inexplicable reasons and I have nobody to reach out to". If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Do yourself a favour in 2023: drop Google and all the filthy excrement that they produce. There's plenty of much better alternatives, and from a purely market…

Let me repeat it for those in the back: If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault.

Your email is your most prized possession. It is more important than your credit card number. At least you can call your bank if someone steals it. Also, _ALWAYS_ use your own custom domain for emails. Do not host it @someone-else.com

Stop using a free service from a terrible company that can lock you out at any time and, for Heaven's sake, stop recommending it to non-technical people!

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#137
post #126

This is probably the #500 post on HN that reads "help I've been locked out of my Google account for Kafkaesque/inexplicable reasons and I have nobody to reach out to". If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Do yourself a favour in 2023: drop Google and all the filthy excrement that they produce. There's plenty of much better alternatives, and from a purely market…

I've been thinking to move away from Gmail for a while now, what alternatives do you suggest?

First of all, buy your own domain from Gandi.net, hover, namecheap, or wherever you prefer. Then get an email account at a private provider who let's you use your own domain: fastmail, gandi, proton, tutanota.. As long as you keep paying for your domain registration, you are not beholden to a mail provider.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#138

The fundamental problem here is that there is no way to get support from google that is a human being. I dream of a day when the US government retakes the mantle of consumer protection. Proposed regulation #2 (after eviscerating privacy violation) is that all services must meet certain customer service standards, including having a way to get to a human being. I know I am dreaming hard here, but there once was a time…

> The fundamental problem here is that there is no way to get support from google that is a human being.

No way other than paying a trivial $1.67/month for Google One.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#139
post #126

This is probably the #500 post on HN that reads "help I've been locked out of my Google account for Kafkaesque/inexplicable reasons and I have nobody to reach out to". If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Do yourself a favour in 2023: drop Google and all the filthy excrement that they produce. There's plenty of much better alternatives, and from a purely market…

I've been thinking to move away from Gmail for a while now, what alternatives do you suggest?

Fastmail with your custom domain. I am a user, I am not paid to advertise them. I do not miss Google at all.

If you do not like Fastmail, still get your own domain for emails.

Re: Ask HN: Help – Locked out of 10 years Gmail account

#140
post #3

Did you follow the steps at https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/2402620 ?

Trying this now. Edit: the closest solution is to try account recovery, which is what I was doing. :( I don't want to "spam" the recovery form, since I suspect that will only make it worse. Edit2: trying Gmail app and Google Authenticator now, to see if that makes a difference. Will update with progress. Edit3: no dice. Gmail app just loops me to a message saying "Google couldn't verify that this account belongs to y…

Are you or can you try to make sure that your behavior is s close to normal as possible? If you normally access your account from Chrome, use Chrome. If you normally use macOS use it. If you normally have a static address at home, use it.

Trying to recover your account from your friend’s house in another country, or whatever, could be making it worse.

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